Talk:Johnson Senior High School (Saint Paul, Minnesota)

Johnson Senior High School (Saint Paul, Minnesota) has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 26, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed

Minnesota Low‑importance

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Schools Mid‑importance

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	Reasoning for assessment: The lead has two sentences that I can't tell are referenced in the rest of the article: "third largest high school in the district" and "last high school that opened in the 19th century for the Saint Paul Public Schools". Often, lead sentences don't provide new information, but repeat or summarize information from the article, so you may want to add those statements to History and Enrollment. The statement under Athletics "The girls volleyball team won the class 2-A state championship in 1980" needs a reference. It greatly depends on the reviewer, but Johnson_Senior_High_School_(St._Paul,_Minnesota)#Extracurricular_activities may need slightly more prose.Although usually a recommendation, manual of style is a frequent requirement of GA reviewers; some of the references didn't utilize the citation templates. I have converted several, but there may be some left over particularly in the alumni section. Check to see if the school has received any independent, national recognition: Blue Ribbon, Newsweek, USNews, Wall Street Journal. Otherwise, the article looks great. Good luck, --Jh12 (talk) 12:14, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

"HoF" :
- {{cite web | title =Hall of Fame | publisher =Johnson Senior High School | url =http://governors.spps.org/93b2c04f-a5c5-4d80-ba81-60fca71af903.html | accessdate =2008-07-08 }}
- * Eric Langness, Forest Lake Area Schools Board Member from 2005 to current. Republican endorsed candidate for [[Washington County, MN]].<ref>[http://www.ericlangness.com www.EricLangness.com]http://www.ericlangness.com/

DumZiBoT (talk) 09:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts to myself (thoughts thoughts to my self)

Currently pushing for a good article. Eóin (talk) 03:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

~~Logo or school building as the first image? If school where should the logo go?~~
Possible images to get
- Historic Photos of St. Paul ISBN 9781596523951 pg. 82 (here) pg. 99 (here)
- ~~Black and white of 2nd building (here)~~
- ~~Public domain picture of 2nd building (here)~~
- Modern pictures to get
  - Hockey arena
  - New football field

Mention Gates grant^[1]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Johnson Senior High School (St. Paul, Minnesota)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I have some comments:

1) The lead does not satisfy WP:LEAD. It does not adequately summarize the article. For instance it says "It is one of seven high schools in the Saint Paul Public Schools district", but I can not find this information in the main text. The lead is also too short. I suggest three paragraphs: the first about history and naming, second about education and third about extracurricular activities.

I tried to change the lead to match your suggestions. How does it look now? Eóin (talk) 02:57, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The lead is Ok now. The only remaining problem is formating of dates in references. Ruslik (talk) 15:52, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2) "History" section is not clearly written.

It says "The building on 740 York Ave. served as a maintenance facility...". It is not clear why this building is important. Did it serve as the second school building?

"The school was renamed to John A. Johnson High School during construction of the second building, after the Minnesota governor died in office. The current name was established in 1911." Could these two sentences be combined to improve flow? The year of death of Johnson should also be indicated.

"Overcrowding as a result of the post-World War II baby boom forced a new building to be built in 1963.[7] The current building located on 1349 Arcade St. was built on the site of a former pond." It is not clear if the current building is the same as that erected in 1963. In addition, these two sentences use the words "building" and "build" four times. Can they be rewritten?

"Hastings Pond was filled in along with several other local..." It is not clear if this pond is the same pond that was dried for the school to be built. The date when the pond was filled should also be included.

I do not think that information about mallards is pertinent to this article.

I suggest rewriting the section. It should clearly explain in chronological order when and where each of three buildings were constructed, and when the school moved into them.

I attempted a re-write. Your comments have been excellent; does it read any better now? --Jh12 (talk) 22:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New version is very good, in my opinion. Ruslik (talk) 10:35, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

3) In "Extracurricular activities" section:

Please explain all things like: AAAA state tournament, AAAA champion, Johnson is 46-26-6 all-time against Harding for football.

Changed the first sentence under Athletics to read "Johnson is a member of the Minnesota State High School League and competes in class AAAA." I recommend removing the vs Harding record completely; I think it's enough to say that "it's the oldest continuous rivalry in the Saint Paul City Conference" --Jh12 (talk) 19:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I meant that you need to explain "AAAA". Ruslik (talk) 06:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AAAA is one athletics class/level for that conference/association. I'm not really sure how else it can be explained. --Jh12 (talk) 06:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I reversed the sentence to make it clear that the school programs participate in a specific class of the Minnesota State High School League. I'll try to find language comparable: examples so far include Plano_Senior_High_School#Extracurricular_activities, Benjamin_Franklin_High_School_(New_Orleans,_Louisiana)#Extracurricular_activities, Auburn_High_School#Athletics. If another method reads better, please let me know. Thanks, --Jh12 (talk) 06:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Johnson also has a long history of hockey glory" is not written in encyclopedic language.

Text has changed to "Johnson also has a history of success in ice hockey" --Jh12 (talk) 19:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Perhaps the school's most famous player is Herb Brooks" looks like a personal opinion of an editor of this article.

Removed that phrase. --Jh12 (talk) 19:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Organization" is a strange name for the subsection, which is about a magazine and various clubs.

Title has been changed to "Clubs and organizations"

4) I added a few {{cn}} tags. Please, replace them with citations. Ref 18 is dead. I also removed a ref to rottentomatos, because it links back to Wikipedia. Please, find a replacement. In addition the ISO format should not be used for dates of publications.

Internet archive for Ref 18 has been added. Recommend removing Louie Anderson under Notable alumni until a suitable reference can be found. Pardon, but what was wrong with the ISO format? --Jh12 (talk) 19:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:MOSNUM. In addition some dates are written as "January 27, 1992" or simply "2006"—the format should the same everywhere. Ruslik (talk) 06:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I thought WP:MOSNUM recommends that all references should be in the same format, but doesn't require that both references and body text use the same format. I prefer articles to use full date formatting for body text and ISO for references (e.g. Natalee Holloway). Also, for some of the references the year of publication is the only date available, but I will do a full check on all references. --Jh12 (talk) 09:12, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I actually meant exactly that all dates in references should have the same format. Currently, some dates are in ISO, while other are in DAY MONTH YEAR format. Ruslik (talk) 10:35, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have gone through the references and added as much page and date information as I could find. All dates, if available, should now be in ISO format. All years and months available have also been added. --Jh12 (talk) 22:12, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I found a updated link for ref 18. I removed the two facts that were tagged because they were mostly POV and probably couldn't be cited. I found a reference for Louie Anderson. It isn't about him directly but it says so-and-so went to school with Anderson and later that so-and-so went to Johnson. I hope that's acceptable. Eóin (talk) 02:39, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to put article on hold. If in the following 7 days the problems are fixed I will promote it to GA status. Ruslik (talk) 10:38, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that both Citation and Cite XXX templates are used in the article. These two templates families do not mix well. This mixing caused dates to be formated differently. I changed majority of templates to Cite news. For the future, use templates from only one family: Citation or Cite XXX. If this was FAC you would have serious problems. However I think now the article satisfies GA criteria, so I will pass it. Ruslik (talk) 17:16, 26 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Ramsey, Robert D. Don't Teach the Canaries Not to Sing: Creating a School Culture That Boosts Achievement. Corwin Press. p. 119. ISBN 978-1-4129-4893-7. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

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[1] Ramsey, Robert D. Don't Teach the Canaries Not to Sing: Creating a School Culture That Boosts Achievement. Corwin Press. p. 119. ISBN 978-1-4129-4893-7. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

[1]