Talk:Judge McGruder

"She" has facial hair?

In the picture, I see an old man with a gotee.

Yet the article clearly says that McGruder is a female.

There is NO explanation for this within the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.166.211.45 (talk) 01:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

It says: "Her years in the Cursed Earth had had a damaging effect on her mental health (as well as her physical appearance, which had acquired masculine characteristics)." Richard75 (talk) 17:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I have added "causing her to grow a beard" to the end of the "which had acquired masculine characteristics" scentece the clear things up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.218.139 (talk) 19:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Recent revert

There's no basis for the recent edit saying that there was nobody else who could have become chief judge after Necropolis instead of McGruder. There are hundreds of senior judges, and it's not necessary to name them -- although Dredd does spring to mind. Richard75 (talk) 13:39, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Far from ridiculous, Dredd would never take it and at his own admission has upset far too many people over the years to be accepted, Hershey would not have been seen a suitable at that point, she got fewer votes then Dredd in the elections years later, if they didn't see her as ready then after Nec she would not have been accepted, Shenker and other psi judges have never been shown to go beyond head of the psi division, the rest of the council was dead (Silver was still "alive" but no one know it) and the rest of the characters that could have done it hadn't been introduced and thus did not official exist at that point. McGruder also clearly states she is appointing herself as chief as there's no else around who could do it. I won't budge on this.86.150.50.52 (talk) 13:54, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Don't have access to the latter episodes of the storyline at the moment, but I think a direct quote from McGruder would be best. By the way - nothing wrong with being bold, but if there are differences of opinion then the 'final'* article should be reached at by consensus

• no article is truly final, after all sheridan (talk) 15:07, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

There's another quote by Dredd in a later story towards the end of her second reign, during an argument with her says something along the line of "You weren't appointed, you appointed yourself because everyone else was dead". It was before Wilderlands as I think it was at this argument she had him arrested, or it was at this point he became to doubt her so much he went on try and remove her. I am away from my collection of bulk volumes as well at them moment, but as soon as I can I will get the Necropolis quote and search for this one. Also didn't Silver say before his execution she had made herself chief and he hadn't resigned or something and that's why he was still the chief.86.150.50.52 (talk) 18:09, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

(1) It's never specifically stated in any story that nobody else could have been chief judge, so to say otherwise is opinion for which there is no source. (2) It is shown very shortly afterwards that there are dozens of senior judges (issue 706), such as Niles, Grice and Shenker, so there's no basis for saying there was no one else. (3) As the most senior surviving judge on the Council, Shenker was next in the line of succession to be chief judge. It's irrelevant that he's a psi judge, they're not disqualified or anything. (4) If McGruder hadn't come back, it's not as if they couldn't have found someone else. There's just no grounds to support what you're saying. Richard75 (talk) 00:04, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Also, don't untag the statement while a discussion is in progress. Richard75 (talk) 00:29, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Point (1) It is, she says it herself at the end of Nec when she gets on the bike, one of the judges there even says "no one is going to believe that's the Chief". She had clearly just made herself chief again. Also Dredd shouts at her in later story how she had appointed herself because everyone else had been killed. The page does say that the other possible candidates were missing presumed dead at the time she stepped up, some did later turn up OK but that was not known at the time (some judges seem to have listed as missing for some time, like that guy running Deaths theatre and Silver, he was the chief if they just assume he's dead with a body they'll assume it about anyone, his suicide was just a rumour only the Dark Judges truly known and they weren't going to talk) and she did just move straight in. Point (2) Niles and Grice hadn't been introduced at that point and so didn't exist yet and in to go with point (3), psi judge shave never been shown in major positions of power out side there own divisions, in any city. Also it had been shown before this, mainly with Cal if main ranks don't see a chief as suitable they rebel and depose them. Most of the regular judges see the psi as 'highly strung' and unsuitable to positions out side their own areas, so most would not see Shenker as a suitable candidate. And as for (4) and parts of (2), your not the writer so you can't say what would and would not have happened. I'm just going on what has slowly been revealed over the years. One point of my own, you (Richard75, no one else) seem to have an uncontrollable urge to re-edit anything anyone puts in the 2000AD articles and put it in your own words to your own liking. No one else does this and no one else has any problems with this edit and as I know its right it stays, as said above, I won't budge on this. Someone does need to learn they don't own this pages.86.150.50.52 (talk) 01:02, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

(1) I'm not disputing that she became chief judge at the end of Necropolis, just that there was nobody else available. What is the story you refer to where Dredd says otherwise? Wikipedia uses sources. (2) Niles and Grice were only examples, but I take your point. But it had already been established that there were thousands of judges, so it's not plausible to suggest that not a single one of them could have been considered senior and experienced enough to do the job. (3) Shenker was by then an established character. I can't see how the fact that he's a psi- judge has any bearing on this point -- an SJS judge had never been chief judge before, until Cal was; a judge-tutor had never been chief before, and then Griffin was. There has to be a first time. We've never been told the backgrounds of chief judges of other cities (4) I'm not the writer; neither are you. That's why we can't speculate about things we haven't seen in the stories. Of course, the real reason McGruder became chief judge is because the writer wanted it that way and so that's what he wrote. (5) Try not to take it personally, and don't indulge in ad hominem arguments; WP:Assume good faith. Richard75 (talk) 22:16, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

The point that she appointed herself should not be an issue then. I can't remember exactly which story it was when Dredd was arguing with her, it was around when he started to doubt her or when she arrested.. I read it before Christmas when I re-read the bulk volumes as a reminder for vol 28. I can't look it up at the moment as I am away from my home as my parents and brother have the flu. I am quite certain the he said she had appointed herself because everyone else was dead or not around/available at that point (as put in the article "was missing"). There had just been major disaster and millions were dead and they assumed Silver, the chief was dead without any remains, or any real evidence at all apart from rumours. The head of the psi division probably would have been assumed to be among the dead. Both as he was on the council and as the dark judges are known to target psi's as a major threat. "The Theatre of Death" showed they didn't figure where everyone was for a few days or longer (the search didn't seem that great either, they missed Silver. Yes he was pretending to be a corpse but he still looked the same, someone should have recognised him when they chucked him in the meat wagon or when he was tipped into the pits). Anyhow I will find the Dredd's quote whe I get back ASAP, and put it up here if no on else finds it before then, even if I've got wrong just to let this die. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.50.52 (talk) 23:10, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Well I have been searching for nearly a week and have to admit I have unable to find the quote. I am certain I read it some were but I am currently unable to find it but will continue looking (I need to find some source's for stuff on other pages anyway).86.187.167.144 (talk) 18:33, 2 February 2017 (UTC)