Talk:Kayastha

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Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2015[edit]

Please include the name of Amitabh Bachchan as notable Kayastha because his father Harivansh Rai 'Bachchan' was a Kayastha and his real name is Amitabh Shrivastava. Also include the name of Bal Thackeray[1][2] Vandsriv (talk) 06:54, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done please read the section above as to why not
We do not count who someone's father was, what their name is, their inclusion on a list, or someone else stating they are a member of a caste.
We require a specific reference, where the person actually states that they consider themselves a member of the caste. - Arjayay (talk) 08:59, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Even without actually referring to his wiki page you can just Add his name and remark that he doesnt believes in caste system; it is not necessary to totally eradicate his name from the list :/ Morover , the name of Harivansh Rai Bachchan should be added because he was a Kayastha and didnt possibly decline being so. Nonetheless , atleast this line could be added 'Amitabh Bachchan was born into a Kayastha family but decisively refused to be called so as being a non-follower of Castism'.User:Arjayay Indianwiki (talk) 18:28, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
It is not going to happen. That you seem unwilling either to read or to accept the consensus is just an irritation - it won't actually change anything, so you might as well give up trying now. - Sitush (talk) 18:32, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
The wiki page about Harivansh Rai Bachchan itself accounts him to be a Kayastha [3] ; then why is he not being among "the notable people list" ? Indianwiki (talk) 18:40, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia pages are not a reliable source - the page only states "Born in a Kayastha family" which is a attribution from an outsider. You need a citation where he declares that he considered himself a Kayastha. - Arjayay (talk) 18:54, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
He also didn't decertify being a Kayastha. A page in his Biography states he just changed his last name, and according to Wikipedia's own rules, this doesn't admits that he wasn't a Kayastha since he didn't proclaim. [4]. Many few people today actually 'pro-claim' of being in a community, and as he was a visionary he too wasn't supportive of Castism, but this doesn't means he rooted out his origins.Indianwiki (talk) 19:15, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
"he spent the next two years at St Catharine's College, Cambridge, Cambridge University doing his doctoral thesis on W.B. Yeats. It was then, that he used 'Bachchan' as his last name instead of Srivastava." [5] Indianwiki (talk) 19:17, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

What happens at the Harivansh Rai Bachchan article is completely irrelevant. In any case, I've now adjusted it because the source is known to have used content from Wikipedia. Just drop this, please: you are not going to get your way, especially when Amibtabh has specifically said that he does not identify with any caste. - Sitush (talk) 19:33, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

User:Sitush I just said that his name should be permitted in this article as he "never denied being a kayastha". Why did you edit the Harivansh Rai Bachchan's article ? You are just edit-warring on Harivansh Rai's article. Pls. stop deliberate attempts to edit as per your "Original Research"/ideology claiming that the citations were poor. That citation you classified as poor is copyrighted work and as you say "modern work of literature" , so pls. dont try to mislead/alter genuine info. Indianwiki (talk) 20:35, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

References

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 20:49, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
User:Ivanvector , im trying to do the very same, but other are doing things even without proper and satisfactory discussion.Indianwiki (talk) 16:33, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Then by all means continue the discussion, but until there is an agreement to make a change, do not reactivate the request. Continuing to request a declined change without coming to an agreement is disruptive. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 19:56, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Recent citation removals[edit]

I have just quickly removed a host of unreliable sources from this article. We do not use the speculations of Raj authors, nor The People of India (which plagiarises them), nor sources published by any outfit that falls under the umbrella of Gyan Publishing. We also do not use S. N. Sadasivan, whose writings were amateurish and lacking in formal training. - Sitush (talk) 20:37, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2015[edit]

"Below is the body of work that I have suggested amendments. Please change the phrase below" Varna status According to multiple accounts, they are a literate and educated class of Kshatriyas, and have been referred to as a twice-born caste.[5][6] Other sources rank Kayasthas higher than Kshatriyas (between Brahmins and Khatris).

"Please change above statement and replace with"

There is continued debate as to which of the four Varnas the Kayathas belong to; their societal contribution as scribes, writers and accountants have led to the notion that Kayasthas do not belong to any one of the four Varnas (caste classes). As cited from the book "The Calcutta Review, Volume CII, January 1896, pg123", it was mentioned that "The mixed classes, such as the Ambasthas, Kayasthas, &c., do not belong to any Varna, but they form distinct Jatis. The four Varnas, with the mixed classes (Varnasankara) in the anuloma order, form so to speak the Hindu society in Bengal." Conversely, it has been said that Kayathas were originally apart of the Brahman varnas and over time their need within the four classes lead to the participation of the class from other caste classes or Varnas. As cited from “Early Medieval Indian Society, By R.S. Sharma pg.195”, as cited by "Just as the brahmanas formed only one class of priests out of the sixteen kinds in Vedic times, so also the kayasthas formed only one class of about a dozen kinds of writers and record keepers in the beginning. In course of time, all the other record keepers came to be known as kayasthas. In the initial stage, literate members from the higher varnas were recruited as kayasthas or scribes to meet the fiscal and administrative needs of the community. But gradually the scribes, recruited from different varnas, cut off marriage and other social connections with the parent varnas, and confined all their social intercourse to the new community; they practiced class endogamy and family exogamy. Confronted with the problem of finding a place for the kayathas in the varna system the Brahmana lawgivers faced a dilemma and connected the kayathas with both the sudras as well as the dvijas.


The ambiguity to the Kayastas belonging to one particular group still continues to be an on-going debate in India. As cited from “Early Medieval Indian Society, By R.S. Sharma pg.195”, as cited by “Since the Dharmasastra texts on the origin of the kayathas are ambiguous and historical examples not confined to one varna, in recent times, the Calcutta High Court called them sudras and the Allahabad High Court called them brahmanas. “ Also as cited from the book "The Hindustani Kayasthas: The Kayastha Pathshala, and the Kayastha Conference, 1873-1914,pg43", it was mentioned that "We are in this case concerned with the decision of Raj Kumar Lal v. Bleseshwar Dayal, relied upon the learned Subordinate Judge for his decision that Bihari Kayasthas are Sudras..."


BharatVarsh2015 (talk) 03:56, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Sam Sailor Talk! 11:13, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 April 2016[edit]

Kayastha's are not demanding 33% reservation in Government jobs. Please remove this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nik130592 (talkcontribs) 21:00, 2 April 2016‎ (UTC)

@Nik130592: Per what reliable source? —C.Fred (talk) 21:09, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

There is no organization of Kayastha's which has been demanding reservation. The Akhil Bhartiye Kayastha Mahasabha has also not held any public agitation for this yet.

I have asked you to remove the reservation line but why have you not removed it yet.Nik130592 (talk) 14:20, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Nik130592. Unfortunately, that statement is reliably sourced so we can't remove it. --regentspark (comment) 14:26, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

population of kayastha is incorrect[edit]

population of kayastha mentioned in the wikipedia article is only 800,000. however, it should be arund 8,000,000. Please see the reference below: [1]

i think there is some typing error, which needs to be corrected.

Vishal.nitc (talk) 18:47, 12 April 2016 (UTC) vishal

  1. ^ https://joshuaproject.net/people_groups/17124/IN