Talk:Kayastha

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Add Neil Nitin Mukesh, Shraddha Nigam, Mansi Srivastava, Ankita Srivastava, Amartya Sen, Yashwant Sinha, Munmun Dutta among the Notable Kayasthas.

There are also Kayasthas in Himachal Pradesh, who use surname "Kaistha". As well as in north Nepal, who use the surname "Kayastha". Example - Shubha Kayastha, a Nepalese feminist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:A124:43E2:6DE6:2108:2072:943E (talk) 08:41, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2017[edit]

North India (UP, Delhi)

Srivastava, Mathur, Saxena, Bhatnagar, Nigam, Asthana, Kulshreshtha, Gaur, Ambastha, Karna, Suradhwaja, Balmiki. (Last two are rarely found)

Bengal:

Sen, Kar, Das, Palit, Saha, Dutt/Dutta, Bose, Ghosh, Pal, Dey. Ray, Sarkar, Chudhry, Nag, Som, Mullick, Majumdar, Munshi, Roy, Chandra, Guha, Vaidya, Nandy, Nandan, Sinha, Rakshit, Ankur, Nath, Biswas, Dhar, Bhadra, Sarbhan, Varman, Bhava, Mitra, Gupta, Kundu, Bhadradhar, Vishwasu, Dev, Adhikari, Patwari.

Orissa:

Patnaik, Kanungo, Das, Bihiyar, Mohanti, Naidu, Pataskar.

Assam:

Barva, Chakravarty, Baid, Mahanti.

Madhya Pradesh:

Srivastava(also Khare), Saxena, Gaur, Asthana, Khare.

Gujarat:

Chandraseni Kayastha Prabhu, Mehta, Vallabhji, Balmiki, Surajdhwaj, Vallabhi.

South India:

Mudaliar, Naidu, Pillai, Reddy, Bal, Karnik, Raman, Rao, Menon, Nair, Nayyar, Raju.

Goa, Daman, Diu:

Davane, Keelen, Pathare.

Sindh Province:

Alim, Fazil, Qamil, Advani.

Some ALS commonly used by Saxena – Johry, Hajela, Adholia, Raizada, Kodesia, Kanungo, Bartariya, Bisaria, Pradhan, Kamthania, Darbari, Rawat, Saharia, Dalela, Sonreksha, Kamojia, Agochia, Sinha, Moria, Johri.

ALS commonly used by Mathurs are – Saharia, Kataria, Kakrania, Dewariya, Dilwariya, Tawakaley, Rajauria, Nag, Galgotia, Sarwaria, Andley(Endlay), Ranoria.

Bhatnagar’s main ALS are – Dasania, Bhatania, Kuchania, Gujaria, Bahliwal, Mahiwal, Sambhalwed, Barsania, Kanmaujia, etc (Total ALS are 84).

Nigams have the following prominent ALS – Kanungo, Akbarpur, Akbarabadi, Kanungo ghatampuri, Chaudhry, Phaphund, Kanungo badha, Kanungo jaipur, Munshi ghatampuri, etc.

Shrivastavas common ALS are – Verma, Sinha, Aghori, Paday, Pandia, Raizada, Kanungo, Jagdhari, Pradhan, Beohar, Raja Surajpura, Tandwa, Vaidya, Barwaria, Choudhary, Raja Sandeela, Deogaon. It may be seen that some ALS are been usaed b more than sub-sects of Kayasthas- Verma, Sinha, Kanungo, Raizada, Choudhary. Now a days Sinhas or Vermas are found in other castes also.

Bihar:

Srivastava, Ambashtha, Karna, Mathur, Bhatnagar. Other surnames/ALS used are – Sinha, Pandeya, Pandia, Kanth, Das, Sahay, Samaiyar Gayasen, Verma etc.

Punjab:

Govil, Lahiri, Hajela, Raizada, Vidyarthi, Choudhary, Johari, Rawat, Bisaria, Sinha, Nagpal, Gotriy Kayastha, Kashyap, Bakshi, Dutta.

Rajasthan:

Gaur, Mathur, Pacholi, Srivastava Guttu, Nandan, Sarbhan, Phuttu, Mavekadanvas, Sambhare, Bhatnagar, Shastri, Prasad.

Tamilnadu:

Tamil Canara, Kayastha, Naydu, Pilley, Menon.

Andhra Pradesh:

Telugu Kayasha, Naidu (Note: In Hyderabad, Kayasthas are in abundance and they are Mathurs, Srivastava, Nigams, Saxenas, etc as in North India. They are all Urdu speaking)

Bihar:

Srivastava, Ambashtha, Karna, Mathur, Bhatnagar. Other surnames/ALS used are – Sinha, Pandeya, Pandia, Kanth, Das, Sahay, Samaiyar Gayasen, Verma etc.

Punjab:

Govil, Lahiri, Hajela, Raizada, Vidyarthi, Choudhary, Johari, Rawat, Bisaria, Sinha, Nagpal, Gotriy Kayastha, Kashyap, Bakshi, Dutta.

Rajasthan:

Gaur, Mathur, Pacholi, Srivastava Guttu, Nandan, Sarbhan, Phuttu, Mavekadanvas, Sambhare, Bhatnagar, Shastri, Prasad.

Tamilnadu:

Tamil Canara, Kayastha, Naydu, Pilley, Menon.

Andhra Pradesh:

Telugu Kayasha, Naidu (Note: In Hyderabad, Kayasthas are in abundance and they are Mathurs, Srivastava, Nigams, Saxenas, etc as in North India. They are all Urdu speaking)

Maharashtra:

Chandra Seniya Kayastha Prabhu(CKP) surnames used are – Thackeray, Pathare, Pathekar, Karkhanis, Pharnis, Polanis, Vanis, Hazirnarsis, Mokasi, Chitnavis, Kotnis, Chitre, Gupte, Mathrey, Deshpande, Karore, Donde, Tamhane, Dighe, Sule, Raje, Sangle, Mohite, Tungare, Kulkarni, Shreedh, Pradhan, Jaywant, Wamanraje, Pharnase, Apte, Khyadya, Gadkari, Trivakraje, Adhikari, Samarth, Dalvi, Deshmukh, Chowil, Nadkar, Dawalkar, Sowankar, Kulawkar, Otarkar, Kharulkar, Kivalkar, Medhekar, Khadelkar, etc. Naveen9234 (talk) 02:28, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done I don't feel this is particularly relevant enough for inclusion into this article as it appears to just be raw data that is of little use. — IVORK Discuss 03:02, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Bengali Kayastha[edit]

Seems to be subgroup of a sub caste , do not see notability criteria to hold on page on itself Shrikanthv (talk) 11:24, 28 August 2017 (UTC)


Absolutely NO! I strongly disagree with the merge. Kayastha is not a 'single' caste but a 'functional group' that were derived from different castes based on the location. Hence each (based on location) has different customs, traditions and even varna. This page just lists the common traits of this group. Also, merging would make this page very unmanageable. Hence I strongly disapprove of the merge as it would be inaccurate.

Another point: Brahmin has a wikipedia page and Bengali Brahmins have a different wikipedia page. That does not mean these pages should be merged since Bengali Brahmins are a subcaste of Brahmins. Similarly, the Kayastha pages should also not be merged. Administrator, please reject this merge proposal by Shrikanthv as it is completely illogical.

AmericanResearcher (talk) 09:26, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Some points in this article is written which are hurting the sentiments of fellow Kayasthas. Kindly edit the portions that I'll mention below.[edit]

Hello Moderator!

In the article written about Kayasthas,there are some major ambiguities which needs to be resolved so that it doesn't create confusion among the people of India and the entire world and also doesn't hurt the sentiments of the Kayasth Community worldwide. The following is written in the 2nd paragraph of the ORIGIN section of the "Kayastha" page in Wikipedia:

Brahmanical religious texts refer to them as a caste of scribes, recruited in the beginning from the Brahmin, Kshatriya and Vaishya castes, but eventually forming distinct subcastes in northern and western India. Kayasthas have therefore also been mentioned as a "mixed caste", combining Brahman-Shudra (lower caste) and sometimes Kshatriya as well.

The above written paragraph is false. Kayasthas are the purest of Kshatriyas under law. We've proved it in Calcutta High court in late 1800's and also in Patna High court that we're Kshatriyas!! The Pala empire, Jessore empire and the Karkota Dynasty were ruled by Kayasthas. If you'll look at our history,then you'll never find us doing any work of "Vaishya varna or Shudra varna". We were Kings and Administrators. Swami Vivekananda even said that Kayasthas are the purest of Kshatriyas. When he was asked as to which caste he is from,he replied, "I'm the descendant of that great man at whose feet every Brahmin lays flowers and chants the words 'Yamaay Dharmraajaay Chitraguptay Vai Namah' and whose decendents are purest of Kshatriyas."

In Hinduism,we are accorded dual varna status(Brahmin as well as Kshatriya) because Lord Chitrgupt was a GOD born with a quill/inkpot and a sword girdled to his waist which gave him Kshatriya status. He married the daughters of two sages(Brahmins) named Shobhavati/Irawati & Nandani/Sudakhina. These two Brahmin daughters of the sages gave birth to total of 12 sons who naturally were accorded dual varna status(Brahmin from mother's side and Kshatriya from father's side).

There is no question of us being a mixed caste!!! We're Chitransh/Devputra which means children of GOD in English!! It's somewhat similar to "Hercules" from Greek mythology who was a Demi-God!! We're at par with the Brahmins(as a caste) and above the Rajputs(as a caste) There are several sites online which will prove that we're Brahmin as well as Kshatriya.

Kindly make the necessary changes so that the confusion stays no more in the minds of people of other castes and religions across the world!!

Yours faithfully Rohit Sinha(Ambasth Kayasth) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohitsinha1234 (talkcontribs) 12:27, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Dear Mr Rohit Sinha,
I am not a moderator, just an editor. I think Sitush is the moderator.
I can understand that you are feeling hurt and i am sorry for that - but the best way to get a consensus on a change is to debate using valid sources.
I am replying to each of your point.
Please note that the Wikipedia editors only are allowed to reflect the sources, we are not allowed original research.
1. Brahmanical religious texts refer to them as a caste of scribes, recruited in the beginning from the Brahmin, Kshatriya and Vaishya castes, but eventually forming :distinct subcastes in northern and western India. Kayasthas have therefore also been mentioned as a "mixed caste", combining Brahman-Shudra (lower caste) and sometimes :Kshatriya as well. You say this is wrong.
reply : I checked and the source does say that exactly (frankly, imho, it does seem strange ).
We have to follow the source. The wikipedia page is accurately reflecting the source so we have to keep it. If you find another source that says this is wrong or gives :another origin, we can add it. But this particular edit about origin is correct according to the source.
2. You said " The Pala empire, Jessore empire and the Karkota Dynasty were ruled by Kayasthas. If you'll look at our history,then you'll never find us doing any work :of :"Vaishya varna or Shudra varna". We were Kings and Administrators. Swami Vivekananda even said that Kayasthas are the purest of Kshatriyas.
Ans: Can you provide sources? We cannot add stuff based on personal opinions.
3. You said "When he was asked as to which caste he is from,he replied, "I'm the descendant of that great man at whose feet every Brahmin lays flowers and chants the :words 'Yamaay Dharmraajaay Chitraguptay Vai Namah' and whose decendents are purest of Kshatriyas.It's somewhat similar to "Hercules" from Greek mythology
who was a Demi-God!! "
Ans: Chitragupta is considered a God - he has temples across India - and no human actually descends from God. Swami Vivekananda may have said it is a metaphoric way or :as part of a mythological belief. I am sure he did not mean it literally.
4.We're at par with the Brahmins(as a caste) and above the Rajputs(as a caste) There are :several sites online which will prove that we're Brahmin as well as Kshatriya.
Ans: Sources please? BTW, just FYI Rajput itself was considered a mixed caste hence lower than Kshatriya (carefully read the wikipedia page of Rajputs).
Point is that you have been making unsourced claims and hence these cannot be considered for edits. Sorry.
Please give the names of the books, page numbers, quotes etc in the future if you want your views to be considered.
Lastly, from my study, kayasthas originated from different castes depending on the place of origin in India. So one statement about that applies to kayasthas of UP(for example)
cannot be applied to kayasthas of Bengal (as an example).
digression:(my personal beliefs about such issues)
Let me conclude by saying that I and a Deshastha Yajurvedi Brahman from Maharashtra who has great reverence for Kayasthas like Swami Viveknanada.
I used to think initially that he was a Bengali Brahmin.
He is like a Guru to many and I started learning about Hinduism by reading his books. I visit the homes of some orthodox Trimbakeshwar pandits when I go to India
and have found Vivekananda's life sized paintings in their drawing rooms.
Personally, I avoid writing derogatory stuff that is likely to intentionally cause pain to anyone (unless absolutely necessary to prevent complete distortion of facts), :since I strongly believe it is considered 'very bad' karma that hits back the writer later with 'bad luck' in life.But that is just a personal/religious belief :-)
But in this case, I am helpless as you have not cited a single source for your statements.
Hence, please forgive me that I cannot make the edits you want.
Best Regards,Acharya63 (talk) 10:47, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

False information[edit]

In Bengal, during the reign of the Gupta Empire beginning in the 4th century, when systematic and large-scale colonization by Indo-Aryan Kayasthas and Brahmins first took place, Kayasthas were brought over by the Guptas to help manage the affairs of state.[8]

Bengalis are an Indo-Aryan linguistic group. This makes no sense and there was no colonization by an outside speaking group. 4 Can someone remove this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.44.177.134 (talk) 06:18, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

KAYASTHA NOT A MIXTURE OF BRAHMIN AND SHUDRA[edit]

Hello sir, I would like to earnestly inform you that kayasths are only the mix of brahmin and kshatriyas, as written in vedas. They are direct descendents of king of king chitragupta ji maharaj therefore they are regarded as kshatriyas. PLEASE it is a kind request to change the matter if you want proof i'll give it Theakarsh (talk) 21:21, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Dear Sir, you are probably new to wikipedia. Please note that wikipedia can only add properly sourced content. The current content about origin is properly sourced. If you want to give a different proof of origin, please quote a reliable source that says something different. The Chitragupta belief is already on the page. Also, descent from a God(Chitragupta) cannot be used a proof of origin (no offence intended to your religious beliefs). Thank you.-Acharya63 (talk) 19:48, 16 November 2017 (UTC)