Talk:Kingdom of Croatia (925–1102)

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:21, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Map

The map in the info box. Where are the sources that confirm the large area? It conflicts with Serbian Rasca that i erlaps the same area at the same time. I am not that familiar with these maps but I don’t recall the kingdom of Croatia reaching that far East or South. OyMosby (talk) 23:46, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the remark made by the @OyMosby. Modern historians such as Neven Budak disagree with the notion that Croatia in this period reached Drava river. Among the maps made by Luigimini, there is one showing Croatia during reign of king Stjepan Držislav. Unfortunately even that map isn't done right, but among the sources quoted for making it, there is one which shows Croatia right. It is this one:

https://imgur.com/F8ferYn

Territory of Croatia is marked as Hrvatska and it roughly follows medieval Croatian counties. A map similar to that is also displayed in Museum of Croatian Archaeological Monuments in Split. I will therefore remove all dubious maps from this article, until we reach a consensus on what to do. Franjo Tahy (talk) 11:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am making a bold revert because there do exist many reliable historiographical sources which show such boundaries. The issue at hand is citing reliable sources first and foremost. Replacement wasn't appropriate either and the counties map isn't done right as well. The issue is far more complex because there's no accurate map neither exist a consensus in the historiography. Modern viewpoints should be taken with caution because are part of a broader trend, and do not necessarily represent traditional or more accurate viewpoint.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For example, Adriatic 1089.svg (Dugački, Vlatka; Regan, Krešimir: Hrvatski povijesni atlas (Historical atlas of Croatia). Zagreb: Miroslav Krleža Institute of Lexicography, 2018. ISBN 9789532680454, pp. 120-121).--Miki Filigranski (talk) 20:28, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I know that radio shows can't really be quoted on Wikipedia, but I will write it here anyway for the sake of the discussion because I consider Neven Budak authority on the matter. Anyway, in radio show Povijest četvrtkom, episode about medieval Slavonia, he said that it could be considered that: "the reign of Croatian kings reached as far as Sisak" in the time of Councils of Split. Which is also the period of king Tomislav. Other than that, he said there are very few sources about lands that would became Slavonia.

From other that I know, that lands between Sava and Drava river modern historiography considers some kind of wide borderland area between Croatia and Hungary. Even Hrvatska enciklopedija (article about Gvozd mountain) says that Gvozd mountain was considered a border between medieval Croatia and Slavonia. In my opinion, the most sense makes to consider the territory of medieval Croatian counties recorded by Constantine Porphyrogenitus as the actual territory of medieval Croatia. Franjo Tahy (talk) 22:00, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]