Talk:Kiryathil Nair

Titles

Titles were given by the Kings according to profession. So the titles of Nagavanshi Nair community are also found in other Hindu and Christian communities. But these communities are not at all related to each other, that is, they don't have same ancestry, though they share same titles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.3.247.151 (talk) 07:54, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Admin, Tamil Mannadiayars of Palakkad district are not Kiriyathil Nairs. They belong to Kunnuvar caste of Tamil Nadu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.7.235 (talk) 12:52, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Indeed the tamil Mannadiyar I think you are referring to nair Mannadiyar since there 3 Mannadiyar in palakkad and nair Mannadiyar are 1 among them , they are kiriyath Pramith 123 (talk) 02:23, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Kiriyathil and Illathu Nairs never practiced polyandry

Polyandry means having more than one husband at a time. When a divorced or widowed woman marries again it is called re-marriage not polyandry. In Nair community, both men and women had full right to terminate their marriage if they had problems with their spouse and they also had the right for re-marriage. Nair women never had more than one husband at a time. Fraternal polyandry and non-fraternal polyandry were and are considered shameful in Nair community.

Shri.Chattampi Swamikal was born in 1853. He belonged to Poniyath Nair Tharavadu and his father was Shri.Vasudevan Nambuthiri. Shri. Azhakath Padmanabha Kurup was born in 1869. He belonged to Azhakathu Nair Tharavadu and his father was Shri. Narayanan Empranthiri. The Kings and Princes married women Kiriyathil and Illathu Nair communities. In those royal families Nair women were never forced to have fraternal or non-fraternal polyandry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.204.125.220 (talk) 11:18, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Please change title

Admin, please change the title to "Kiriyathil and Illathu Nairs" because Kiriyathil Nairs are genuine Nairs of Malabar and Cochin and Illathu Nairs are genuine Nairs of Travancore. I have collected a lot of information about these two communities from different sources. Genuine Nairs have their own ancestry, rituals and customs. Do not listen to those idiots who are trying to destroy our community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.216.85.76 (talk) 04:24, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Not Kiryathil(കിർയത്തിൽ), It's Kiriyathil(കിരിയത്തിൽ). My father was Kiriyathil Nair and my mother is Malabari Shudra Nair, that is, Illathu Nair of Malabar.

Kiriyathil Nair coming under Kshatriyas.

In the topic explained under the heading-Kiriyathil Nair already explains they are land owners, have their own house and they were allowed to have food with Brahmins, even when Iyers were not allowed. It's really explained the fact gracefully. They were rulers also. They lived in houses like Nalukettu or more like houses with 4 nadumuttam and along with this house for the family they had a padippura also. Still they are the forward caste and superior to other subcaste of Nair . So Kiriyathil Nair coming under Kshatriyas. Please add this point also to the explanation under Kiriyathil Nair. Liji Nair (talk) 17:47, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

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Please add segments about 'diet' and 'customs and rituals' of Kiriyathil Nairs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.207.166.94 (talk) 09:58, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Recent inappropriate expansion

I've taken the article back to a "last good version". There were huge additions during April that seem to me to be inappropriate both in terms of focus (eg: we have an article for the martial art and do not need to go into massive detail about it here) and sourcing (we do not use sources from the Raj era and earlier for caste articles). If you really think that some or all of that material was appropriate then please seek consensus for inclusion of it here first. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 09:50, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Actually, I am wondering whether the various expansions have been copy/pasted from old versions of our articles on subjects such as Kalaripayattu and Nair. Some of it seems vaguely familiar from years ago. - Sitush (talk) 10:07, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Sitush, why you have added the details about Kaniyars from the documents of Raj era? Especially, from Cochin Tribes and castes which was written by L. Anantha Krishna Iyer in the year 1901.

Sitush, I have downloaded many books on the history of Kerala. I had also added the citations. Why did you delete them? Why are you so jealous of Nairs? From Where I will get the old articles for copy pasting? Do those old articles exist now on the internet?

Did you read my opening comment? Sources from the British Raj era and earlier are not reliable. And a lot of what you added was extremely tangential to the focus of the article, which should be about the caste and not, for example, the various styles of kalaripayattu.

I can see no mention of Kaniyars in the article. - Sitush (talk) 16:47, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

I am talking about other articles like Kaniyar and Kalari. Read the fourth citation of article Kalari. It is Cochin Castes and Tribes written L. Anantha Krishna Iyer and it was written in the year 1909, that is, before independence. Shame on you Sitush. You are a person with extreme level inferiority complex.

Why you have added the details from the books Kathleen Gough? Were those books written in 21st century?

Ah, I see. Well, I didn't add that souce to the Kalari article. Gough is after the British Raj era. Please read the information at WP:NPA before commenting further. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 17:07, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

MR.SITUSH, DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS BRITISH RAJ ERA? IN INDIA, EVEN 5TH STANDARD CHILD KNOWS THAT INDIA GOT INDEPENDENCE IN 1947. SHAME ON YOU SITUSH. SHAME ON YOU. WHY YOU HAVE ADDED THE DETAILS FROM THE BOOK OF L. ANANTHA KRISHNA IYER IN THE ARTICLE KALARI? READ THE FOURTH CITATION.

What is wrong in adding the details from the books of the British Raj Era? Didn't the Nair community exist on days? Is Nair a community formed after independence?

In the Nair article, look at the citations from 73 to 77. It is written "Panikkar (1918)". 1918!!!!!, before independence, where are your rules??????

Another citation in Nair article, citation no.60, "Fawcett(1901)". 1901, before independence.

I am not responsible for every word written in every Wikipedia article. There are very rare occasions where using an old source might just be ok but your edits certainly were not among them. There is a long-standing consensus of the Wikipedia community regarding this. You may find a read of User:Sitush/CasteSources useful. - Sitush (talk) 17:31, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Sitush castes sources??? Why should I refer to Sitush caste sources? My community existed before independence. There is a mention about my community even in books of the 16th century. Refering those books is a part of research. Who are you to say that those books are not reliable? For Nair community books of pre-independence era should not be referred and for Kaniyar community any book can be referrerd. Right? You are the most insincere editor of Wikipedia. 103.219.49.142, you need to stop shouting at Sitush, and to read WP:NPA, WP:V and WP:RS before commenting further here. Further intemperate language like that you have used above will get you blocked. You need to discuss the content you wish to add in a civil manner, and establish consensus for it. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:59, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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The kshtriyahood of Kiriyathils

I do not believe the Kiriyathils were kshtriyas. As mentioned by several historians, all the subsects of Nairs, including the Samantans and Kiriyathils were sudras in the varna classification, however they performed functions of that of Kshtriyas. The Palakkad royal family were regarded as sudras who were then elevated to Kshtriyas with the help from tamil brahmins, similar was the case with Marthanda Varma, who elevated himself from a sudra to a kshtriya with the help of brahmins from the other states. The Kaimals and Karthavu from the cochin kingdom as well as the paliyath achan, although kiriyathils, were still regarded as shudras according to the kings of cochin and namboothiris at that time. Pedia.01110 (talk) 10:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

This is also further emphasised by C. Achyutha menon(the grandson of Paliath govindan achan), a kiryathil nair himself(called vellayma nair in Central kerala), who wrote the cochin state manual. He has stated the several customs nairs(including kiryathils) had to follow while speaking to the raja, just because he was a kshtriya, for example, nairs had to always mention their palaces or tharavadus as a small ugly hut whereas the Kings Palace as a majestic abode(this is just one such example). This might be one of the reasons why the Paliath achan often did not meet the king face to face, for he had to bow down and follow such customs, even though he was much richer and ruled territories and fiefdoms under the King of cochin. Pedia.01110 (talk) 10:56, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Would you happen to know the guy who expanded the article? I've been looking at his provided sources but can't get through. Please verify, so we can move further.R.C^{Outlander07@talk} 14:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

If you are referring to the recent additions I have made, when I checked the "references" tab, I have noticed that the 25th reference I have made could not be opened, which is why I am attaching its pdf below. The rest of the sources seems to be fine and I was able to open it. Kindly point out which source exactly you were not able to get through to?

[1] Pedia.01110 (talk) 06:17, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Illathu Nair and Kiriyathil Nair

Namaste, My family roots are from Kollam, belonging to the Illathu Nair subcaste. I have distant relatives who are Kiriyathil Nairs from the same region, and they are much older as the Illath Nairs in Travancore. Although considered slightly lower than Illath Nairs, intermarriage between the two subcastes is common, and surnames are shared.Many of them are now part of the Illath Nair caste along with samanthan nairs, due to their low population. I am not sure if everyone classifies Kiriyathil Nairs as the highest. I believe this might be a Malabar classification, and if so, we explicitly mention the locations of these Nairs in this page as well. R.Nair.1117 (talk) 12:29, 23 December 2023 (UTC)