Talk:Lia Fáil

Not the coronation stone

This phallic stone is not the real Lia Fáil. This clearly isn't a coronation stone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.153.236.112 (talk) 11:21, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the current pillar stone at Tara, has only been called Lia Fáil in modern times. Many old Irish sources by the monks add that it's Jacob's Pillow. It was sat on for coronations. Whatever the current stone at Tara promoted by the Tourist Board is, it's not the Lia Fáil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.147.171.6 (talk) 08:58, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

A second stone?

I'm sure that those involved in writing this article, and others involved in Irish history/legend, would know better than I, but... when I visited Tara, my tour guide said there was a second stone, taken by the British and since returned, not to Ireland, but to Scotland - he said that the Stone of Scone was not originally Scottish, but in fact was the second stone of Tara. However, neither this article nor that on the Stone of Scone mention this relationship. Was he mistaken? Was he reiterating a common misconception? Thanks. LordAmeth (talk) 08:54, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think a second stone, but rather, the original stone, now rest in Scotland. Many kings and queens of Ireland, Scotland and England were coronated sitting on this stone, including the present Queen Elizabeth II. The stone used to rest under the old coronation chair in Westminster, London, but has since been moved to Scotland but will be returned to London for coronation purposes. For more information on the fascinating story and history of the stone, read Gerald Flurry's The Key of David which many readers will find unbelievable.

I don't know what the scholars think, but it seems likely to me, too, that the real Lia Fáil is in Scotland and is the Stone of Scone. The Latin name "Scoti" originally meant "Irish," and Scotland was settled from the west by the Dál Riata Irish/Scots whose rulers were related to the kings of northern Ireland. Ireland after Saint Patrick did not have a single (real) high king until Brian Boru. It seems just as likely to me that one of the Dál Riata lords took the original Lia Fáil as it does that the phallic stone at Tara is a "coronation stone." Another possibility is that the Vikings (who assimilated with the locals to some degree and became the Norse-Gaels) were the effective rulers of much of Ireland and Scotland for several centuries brought the stone over to Scotland before or after they were defeated by Brian Boru. But who knows? Evangeline (talk) 12:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Speaking in tongues

Can somebody add a pronunciation? TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 17:30, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not entirely familiar with the IPA standard, but Lia is pronounced "Lee-ah", and Fáil is pronounced as per the Fáil in "Fianna Fáil" (IPA: ˈfɔːlʲ) Guliolopez (talk) 18:28, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm no fan of IPA depiction ("it's Greek to me"). And you're not the first to misread (I do it so often I'm embarrassed to admit it ;D) Thanx. TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 19:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Edited the IPA transcription to reflect what the sound is actually transcribed as in Irish, as opposed to what it happens to vaguely sound like to English people, i.e. [ɑː], not [ɔː] for fáil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.227.51.21 (talk) 12:58, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Connection of Lia Fail to other Indo-European cultures

This is just a note on possibly nothing more than a curious coincidence, but has the hypothesis been made for a common link between the early Irish Lia stones and the Ancient Indian (Sanskrit) lingam stones? I am struck by the similarity in the name, the structural similarities in the stones themselves, and in the perceived connections between the rejuvenating or life giving properties that the two cultures accorded to them, respectively. Is there any archeological evidence of similar stones found associated with any other branch of Indo-European cultures?JP Connell (talk) 01:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Move from article to here

The phallus-shaped stone on the Hill of Tara (pictured here) is wrongly named the Lia Fail. It is not the coronation stone of the kings of Ireland. How could it be ? To sit on top of this object would be a physical challenge to say the least- and not at all dignified ! Furthermore 'Lia Fail' does not translate as 'big stone'. It is the Gaelic for 'Stone of Destiny'. The Lia Fail/File:Stone of Destiny left Tara in AD 500 when the High King of Ireland, File:Muirceartaigh MacErc (Murtagh) loaned it to his brother Fergus (later known as Fergus the Great) for the latter's coronation in Scotland. Fergus's sub-kingdom [[[File:[Dalriada]]]], had by this time expanded to include the north-east part of Ulster and parts of western Scotland. Jacob's Pillow, Lia Fail, Stone of Destiny,Stone of Scone, Coronation Stone are all interchangeable names used to describe the same object. It weighs 400 lbs and by size is slightly bigger than a piece of airplane passenger hand-baggage. The real Lia Fail originated outside Ireland but its route to Ireland was via Gibraltar and Cornwall, England (not Norway). A study of the migration of peoples and modes of transport of that era make it unlikely that the Tuatha De Danaan used that route (even assuming it was they who brought the stone to Ireland). They were a sophisticated people and are unlikely to have been into magic.

contradictions in the article

I guess the article above explained why sections of the Lia Fáil article contradict themselves. The first paragraph says the Lia Fáil is Gaelic for Big stone, while the Lia Fáil vs Stone of Scone section says it's not. Will somebody please correct this? Alphapeta (talk) 07:33, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Seconded. I'm using this page just for some general information and I left with more questions than I started with. It would be really helpful if someone with background could help clear the confusion. 146.115.57.205 (talk) 01:44, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's a real mess. I'll start on some clean-up shortly. Hohenloh ⁺ 14:41, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

recent news

Someone should update this page with this information: [1].--Narayan (talk) 20:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

1798 uprising

The article on the Hill of Tara says: "During the rebellion of 1798, United Irishmen formed a camp on the hill but were attacked and defeated by British troops on 26 May 1798 and the Lia Fáil was moved to mark the graves of the 400 rebels who died on the hill that day." Is this verifiable? If so, it seems a very significant event which should be mentioned here. Peter Bell (talk) 02:56, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

What?

"report a tradition saying that Lia Fáil was roaring close to some kings pretending kingdom over Ireland"

What does this mean? Can someone re-write that bit so it makes sense? Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Victoriosissimus (talk • contribs) 21:18, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Done! 8.19.241.10 (talk) 21:56, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Etymology of fál in Lia Fáil

The second element in the name of the stone is likely to be ‘king’ or ‘chief’, making this ‘The Stone of the King’. The Proto-Celtic lemma (‘walos’) is already in Wiktionary, and ‘fál’ is shown as deriving from it:

Old Irish fál < Proto-Celtic *walos < Proto-Indo-European *h₂wl̥h₁os < PIE *welh₁t, ‘he rules’

Moreover, the online Medieval Irish dictionary eDIL lists several homophones for ‘fál’, the most prominent being ‘fence’ and the name of the stone at Tara, but (significantly) also listed is ‘king?’ (with question mark) along with several instances of that potential meaning in Old Irish literature.

These scattered citations of fál with the possible meaning of 'king' show the word survived into the earliest literature, but was nowhere near as common as the standard word for 'king' Old Irish rí < Proto-Celtic *rīxs < Proto-Indo-European *h₃rḗǵs (“ruler, king”). As Wiktionary points out, *walos/fál also survived as an element in names such as Cathal < *Katuwalos, literally 'battle king'.

When fál slipped into oblivion as a word for 'king', the meaning of Lia Fáil was no longer evident, and various attempts at folk etymology arose, such as a re-interpretation as 'Stone of Destiny'.

For a second opinion on this, perhaps approach Celticist, Ranko Matasović. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:3417:5F00:A57B:36F3:554:2F4 (talk) 08:17, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

2001:8003:3417:5F00:E439:3068:3BC:9FF2 (talk) 00:51, 10 May 2023 (UTC)