Talk:Lillie Hall

A fact from Lillie Hall appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 22 July 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Charles Rolls's first car showroom, Lillie Hall, was on the site of a disused skating rink?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/July. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lillie Hall.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:31, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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~~Lillie Hall, 1903~~

... that Lillie Hall ~~(pictured)~~, a combined car showroom and workshop, was run by Charles Rolls before he co-founded Rolls-Royce? Source: "Charles Stewart Rolls (1877-1910). Rolls was a keen driver who was well known in the car world, having taken part in many races of the time. In 1906 he founded Rolls-Royce Ltd with Sir Frederick Henry Royce (1863-1933), creating one of the world's most famous motoring companies. Prior to the establishment of the company, Rolls sold imported French cars in London. Lillie Hall was one of his first showrooms." ([1])
- ALT1:... that Charles Rolls's first car showroom, Lillie Hall ~~(pictured)~~, was on the site of a disused skating rink? Source: "You are strongly encouraged to quote the source text supporting each hook" (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)

Reviewed: Whitey on the Moon

Created by Edwardx (talk), Whispyhistory (talk), and Philafrenzy (talk). Nominated by Edwardx (talk) at 12:12, 7 June 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Article creation date versus nomination filing date acceptable. Article length okay at 1835 B (313 words) readable prose size. Sourcing okay, neutrality okay, no evident signs of copyvio. QPQ done. Hook lengths okay, neutrality okay. ALT0 sourcing is confirmed, ALT1 sourcing is AGF in book. ALT1 is a little hookier, in that it may intrigue readers into clicking through to find out if this person is the Rolls in Rolls-Royce.

Not sure about the image licensing, however. It has copyright notices on the https://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10316386 page, and the metadata for the image itself says "© Science Museum Archive / Science&Society Picture Libr". I'm not sure if the {{PD-UK-unknown}} tag is really justified here. Have you contacted the Science Museum Group to see if they are okay with this image being added to Commons? Wasted Time R (talk) 11:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We don't need their permission. It's an anonymous image from 1903. Institutions often falsely claim copyright on images whose copyright has long expired. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:36, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know UK copyright law. But the {{PD-UK-unknown}} text implies that declaring it public domain is only allowed if "the author is unknown and cannot be ascertained by reasonable enquiry". The description at the picture library page is somewhat specific – it says it's from an album of prints collected by Rolls. Maybe there is some indication in that physical album of who took it - a caption under the print, or some writing on the back of the print. So I think an inquiry to the Science Museum Group is warranted here. Now if you are saying that even if the author is known, a print from 1903 is out of copyright, then you need a different license tag that says that. Wasted Time R (talk) 23:25, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In my experience they would already have stated the photographer if they knew it as such details are recorded when photographs are added to collections. I think it is clear they don't know and relying on the Science Museum's own page is sufficient enquiry. Either way, I don't think they will access the album and reply to us now when everything is closed. I will look at it further. Philafrenzy (talk) 06:49, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Edwardx, Philafrenzy, we need to hear back from you—it's been nearly a month since the "I will look at it further" of the previous post, and a further post is long overdue. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:53, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think we will have to run it without the photograph as I don't believe the point can be settled during lockdown. I am sure they have better things to do. Philafrenzy (talk) 21:11, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is approved to go with the image struck. I continue to think that ALT1 is the better hook, but the DYK promoter can decide. Wasted Time R (talk) 21:38, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]