Talk:List of countries and dependencies by population/India and China

This archive exists for the numerous topics which were created due to a content dispute relating to India and China. Those topics may still be found in the regular numbered archives.

Around the end of 2022, demographers became certain that India would soon have a higher population than China,[1] which they eventually reaffirmed [2]. However, this article's method, established by consensus, has been to use only official figures. India's official figure was much lower, given by their Ministry of Health and Family Welfare which last updated their predictions for future years in 2020, and India had last conducted a census in 2011. The discrepancy led to many disruptive edits. On 25 April 2023, the page was semi-protected indefinitely.[3]

India's population is outdated

India's population figure is outdated, as per 2021 it had already reached 1.4 billion according to Worldometers 84.78.249.37 (talk) 00:39, 9 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You are right. RayAdvait (talk) 12:57, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

can you update it 37.14.196.93 (talk) 22:45, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

India population is overdated

India's population in this clock is 1.410 billion and in the Worldometers clock it is 1.406 billion. Plz update this or otherwise change the source. And also if you do not want to use a population clock, you can use the national annual estimate who's reference is linked below.

https://uidai.gov.in/images/StateWiseAge_AadhaarSat_Rep_31122021_Projected-2021-Final.pdf RayAdvait (talk) 10:51, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

India's population is wrong

India's population is more than 1.4 billion, there are plenty of sources that confirm this. Yet this article feeds from an automated projected calculation from an outdated source that has accumulated a large error. 90.167.87.33 (talk) 09:06, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Although I don’t know how to fix it, I agree India should be 1. GamerKlim9716 (talk) 04:29, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I also agree, I guess we shoulh have a vote on this RayAdvait (talk) 15:29, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

should RayAdvait (talk) 15:29, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lets have a vote on this because India's data is just projections from 2011 so it meets the criteria for UN data RayAdvait (talk) 12:35, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It says in the lead that figures can be based on the estimates or projections for 2022 by the Population Division of the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs if there no updated national figures.Selfstudier (talk) 16:05, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

China

As India begins to surpass the People's Republic of China by the summer, there is technically the most populous country in the world: the Republic of China, as it has a population of 23,313,550 in the territories it only controls. If we go by the constitutional claims, the population would be a combined of the following areas:

Free area of the Republic of China: 23,313,550
Mainland China+Tibet - 1,454,810,720
Outer Mongolia - 3,762,838
Badakhshan - 16,500

at a population of 1,481,903,608 in total. 174.89.100.11 (talk) 09:36, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which is irrelevant to the article; it explicitly uses national census or UN data.

174.89.100.11, your POV-pushing isn't welcome on talk pages either. - RovingPersonalityConstruct (talk, contribs) 16:39, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

India projection

Why is India using a population projected from its census in 2023? That's based on statistics from 12 years ago - surely United Nations Population Fund is better? —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 21:30, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder how the population of India is calculated. On India it is 1.425 billion, on Demographics of India it is 1.407 billion and on this page it is 1.392 billion. Shouldn’t we use the same figures on all pages, and so, which figure? De wafelenbak (talk) 19:10, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@De wafelenbak The first uses United Nations Population Fund, the second uses Our World in Data, and the third uses population projections from India's 2011 Census. I think UNPF should be used for all purposes. —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 19:15, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The UN figure is used on the other list of countries by population. Wizmut (talk) 09:51, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

India and China

On China's page, it says it's the 2nd most populous country and on India's page, it says it's the first most populous country. However, this pages says China is 1 and India is 2. I believe either those two pages should be changed or this one. GamerKlim9716 (talk) 21:01, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This has been a frequent issue the past few months.

The reason for the difference is that each article may use different methods requiring different sources. This article uses official sources only, while the other big population list uses the UN as a source.

Ideally they would be combined, but it's proven a maintenance nightmare in the past. Nobody has made the right tools to make it easy to update. Left separate, the UN article can be maintained with very little effort, while this article sees a couple dozen edits a week.

The two country articles simply use news sources, which this article rarely relies on (only for census announcements).

But one day India's Ministry for Health and Family Welfare or some other government department will update its website, and we can all move on with our lives. Wizmut (talk) 23:40, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Somebody fixed it 🥳 GamerKlim9716 (talk) 20:49, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

its me RayAdvait (talk) 08:45, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

but somebody is reverting it because India has official projections but they are based on data from 2011 RayAdvait (talk) 08:46, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As I read the document the projections were published in 2020. Their demographers may have used other information gathered since their last census to run their numbers. It's hard to be sure exactly what they did. The date of last publication seems the most reliable way to tell if a number is more than 10 years old (a reasonable cutoff point, I'll grant). Wizmut (talk) 09:07, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Published in 2020 but based on data from 2011 census RayAdvait (talk) 12:56, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In part, yes, but it may also rely on more recent data on births and deaths, which do not require a census to collect data on. Wizmut (talk) 14:40, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2023

This edit request to List of countries and dependencies by population has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Make India The most Populated Country!!! 2607:FEA8:9280:3430:372C:12B6:4F4:7EDA (talk) 21:54, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done Please see previous discussions. This article uses official figures only. Wizmut (talk) 22:06, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

India has overtaken China

It still has India at the top 2607:FB91:161B:8940:E8F8:7F1D:CC39:3F54 (talk) 18:54, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, India has overtaken China according to the United Nations official website at https://www.un.org/development/desa/dpad/publication/un-desa-policy-brief-no-153-india-overtakes-china-as-the-worlds-most-populous-country/ and Worldometer at https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/ WikiAwesome133 (talk) 18:17, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

About India's official population estimate

The 2023 Indian official population figure is for March 1, not for July 1. 190.97.10.129 (talk) 11:23, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Change needed

Someone should change the figures. I think they are old. India overtook China when it comes to population.49.178.176.58 (talk) 13:53, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done

DSP2092 (talk) 13:01, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly NOT done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.103.111.118 (talk) 20:22, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@49.178.176.58 and DSP2092: Please see section 'Method'. UN projections are only used if and when national numbers are not available. Also: If UN numbers were to be used, it would have to be the yearly projection (per 30 June), but that would need a change in the text about method, and only after a discussion and a consensus here in the talk page. The note in the India entry will have to suffice until updated numbers can be sourced to the national census authority. --T*U (talk) 06:51, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, India has now became the most populous country. 72.23.187.31 (talk) 02:50, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.un.org/development/desa/dpad/publication/un-desa-policy-brief-no-153-india-overtakes-china-as-the-worlds-most-populous-country/

official source confirming that India Has overtaken China 2406:7400:BB:B281:24AD:65EC:12E2:B367 (talk) 15:11, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

India outnumbering China

I thought recently that Indians outnumber Chinese? 92.24.230.78 (talk) 12:33, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See List of countries by population (United Nations). Maxeto0910 (talk) 20:23, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It did. Apparent according to an edit made back in July this page is based on UN estimates. 24.216.160.195 (talk) 21:57, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Misread the edit, what I mean is it only uses UN estimates when official ones are unavailable. 24.216.160.195 (talk) 21:59, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2023

This edit request to List of countries and dependencies by population has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Update population of India 1,425,775,850, to reflect the UNDESA press release from April 23, 2023. See press release link below.

Update the population ranking list to reflect the updated population estimate.

https://www.un.org/development/desa/dpad/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/PB153.pdf Dobbertz (talk) 20:14, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done Please see section "method". This article uses official figures from each country only. Contrast this article's method with List of countries by population (United Nations).

Almost half of the topics currently on this discussion page are identical to this one. Wizmut (talk) 22:01, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

India and China

@Adithya Shankaran please provide an edit summary and an official source for your recent changes. If no source is provided, edits can be reverted for no other reason. Please use the talk page to discuss changes that have been challenged rather than reverting again. See the revert and discuss cycle. Wizmut (talk) 21:56, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Adithya Shankaran Wizmut (talk) 22:31, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exception for India

Should we use the UN source for India until they publish their census results?

Almost a year ago this article was protected with the note "semi-ing to calm this down until the issue is settled". Well, the issue has not been settled.

The issue is that most demographers think India has outgrown China. But India doesn't want to say so, instead repeatedly delaying its census, possibly for internal political reasons.[4]

In total, India has delayed its 2021 census nine times.[5] They have also not published birth and death data since 2020.[6]

Right now entries on this table are usually not more than 10 years old. And between India's lack of base data and marginal data, their estimates are probably no better than one that is 10 years old. Their latest projections were published in 2020, and even their guess for March 2024 doesn't put them ahead of China's Jan 2024 estimate. Wizmut (talk) 20:01, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging frequent editors of this article: @MIHAIL @Sokndal @TU-nor Wizmut (talk) 02:56, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I am fully aware of the problem, but I am reluctant to make any exceptions to the main rule. It is difficult enough to fence off editors that have found a "better" number for this or that country as it is. If they can argue that "you did that for India", it is difficult to uphold the rule for other countries that may have even older estimates.

An afterthought: Perhaps it would be an idea to make the note "According to UN estimates, India surpassed China by the end of Apr 2023" more visible, perhaps by attaching it to the country names of China and India.

--T*U (talk) 09:05, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I made this mock-up, based on the big area list:

	Country / Dependency	Population	% of world	Date	Source (official or from the United Nations)
–	World	8,140,476,000	100%	7 Nov 2024	UN projection^[1]
1/2 ^[a]	China	1,409,670,000	17.3%	31 Dec 2023	Official estimate^[3]	^[b]
1/2 ^[a]	India	1,392,329,000	17.1%	1 Mar 2023	Official projection^[4]	^[c]

^ According to UN estimates, India surpassed China by the end of Apr 2023.^[2]
^ Refers to Mainland China; excludes China's special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau, which returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997 and 1999, respectively.
^ Includes the population of the India-administered union territories of Jammu and Kashmir, and Ladakh.

^ United Nations. "World Population Prospects 2022". population.un.org. Archived from the original on 5 February 2019. Retrieved 10 Nov 2022.
^ "India to overtake China as world's most populous country in Apr 2023". United Nations. 24 Apr 2023. Retrieved 27 Apr 2023.
^ "10. Total Population Declined and Urbanization Rate Continued to Grow (2023)". www.stats.gov.cn. National Bureau of Statistics of China (NBSC). 2024-01-17. Retrieved 2024-01-20.
^ Sudan, Preeti (9 July 2020). Population Projections for India and States, 2011-2036 (PDF) (Report). New Delhi: Ministry of Health and Family Welfare. p. 83. Archived (PDF) from the original on 4 June 2023. Retrieved 29 July 2023.

Wizmut (talk) 09:16, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

India

Please update, India has a higher population than China

https://www.un.org/development/desa/pd/sites/www.un.org.development.desa.pd/files/undesa_pd_2023_policy-brief-153.pdf 180.150.36.216 (talk) 04:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it needs an update as it doesn't match India's wiki page of 1,428 billion and China at number 2 with it's 1,409 billion. CHCBOY (talk) 19:36, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See List of countries by population (United Nations), which is a list based purely on estimates from the United Nations.-- Maxeto0910 (talk) 17:53, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[3] According to UN estimates, India surpassed China by the end of Apr 2023.^[2]

[5] Refers to Mainland China; excludes China's special administrative regions of Hong Kong and Macau, which returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997 and 1999, respectively.

[7] Includes the population of the India-administered union territories of Jammu and Kashmir, and Ladakh.

[unpop-1] United Nations. "World Population Prospects 2022". population.un.org. Archived from the original on 5 February 2019. Retrieved 10 Nov 2022.

[2] "India to overtake China as world's most populous country in Apr 2023". United Nations. 24 Apr 2023. Retrieved 27 Apr 2023.

[4] "10. Total Population Declined and Urbanization Rate Continued to Grow (2023)". www.stats.gov.cn. National Bureau of Statistics of China (NBSC). 2024-01-17. Retrieved 2024-01-20.

[6] Sudan, Preeti (9 July 2020). Population Projections for India and States, 2011-2036 (PDF) (Report). New Delhi: Ministry of Health and Family Welfare. p. 83. Archived (PDF) from the original on 4 June 2023. Retrieved 29 July 2023.

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[a]

[3]

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