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I would appreciate thoughts on improvements to the page and on how I have decided on the calculating the lengths of rivers that are not wholly within the county boundary. I have based this on the format used by a former featured list, so hopefully this will not need too much tweaking. Thanks in advance.Rimmer1993 (talk) 17:27, 26 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Need to add a |name= parameter to the {{coord}} template calls so that they show up with an appropriate description, e.g. name=Mouth of River Doe. It may also be worth adding in those for which we do not yet have articles such as River Foulness. Keith D (talk) 19:35, 26 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Qualification

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Some rivers are called things other than river. E.g. Cod Beck in Thirsk. I would like to make the qualification either it is called river X, regardless of size or that on the 1:50000 maps, it is shown as light blue between 2 dark lines, like most rivers are shown. Are there any objections. Op47 (talk) 22:00, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not really sure what it is that you are proposing, the article states All officially designated Rivers are listed below, which probably means all watercourses that are called a river. Cod Beck, North Yorkshire in this context would be considered a stream, so is not included. Are you saying that it should be expanded to be a list of rivers and streams? The lead is confusing though, in that it says there are 25 rivers over 20kms, which makes you think only those 25 are included...Jokulhlaup (talk) 11:33, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, no I am not as such saying the article should be expanded to be a list of rivers and streams. If that were so then I suspect the article would have about 1000 entries, which is too many. What I am say is that Cod Beck is a river that has been improperly omitted from the list. This makes me suspect there are others like it. I would like to make my case as to why and the explain how I propose to fix the matter.
1) According to the article river, there is no defined size limit between a river and a beck (say), so there has to be an arbitrary distinction.
2) The statement All officially designated Rivers are listed below implies that there is an officially appointed authority that determines the set of official rivers and there is a list. If so, then the poulation of this list is a "slam dunk". However, if that's the case then there needs to be a reference as to who the authority is and their list. There are several rivers named "River X" that have been omitted and without the reference, we cannot determine if they have been omitted in error or because they are not official rivers. On the other hand, the inclusion of the Gypsey Race is a surprise.
3) If the criteria is that the river is called "river x" the it needs to be stated somewhere so that editor know what is in and what is out. If that is the meaning of all official rivers then the statement is untrue. At present there is at least 1 (River Burn) that is missing. I will add it when I get a chance.
4) Anomalies that suggest a river need not be called "River X" to be considered a river for our purpose. The river Spen is known locally as Spen Beck and is so small, it is not even named on my map. It shown on the 1:50000 map as a single blue line for much of its length. Cod Beck, North Yorkshire on the other hand is called a river in its article. It is shown on the 1:50000 map as light blue in dark blue casing. i.e. it is a river that for some odd reason been called X Beck.
5) There is a river Loxley, the next vally up contains a similar sized er. candidate river which is called Ewden Beck. As I said above the distinction is arbitrary. We however need an objective criteria.
As I suggested above, a clear cut and easy to apply criteria would be to say if a candidate river is shown on the OS 1:50000 in light blue with dark Blue case for at least part of its length, then it is a river and is eligable to be included in this article. I would like to remove the bit about official rivers because unless we can identify the authority and list then it is rather meaningless. Does that clear things up? Op47 (talk) 22:42, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You have made a lot of good points there, I have asked Rimmer1993 if he could contribute as he created the original article...Jokulhlaup (talk) 17:40, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Jokulhlaup, thanks for inviting me to comment on this discussion. If i remember correctly, the list started from the templates i found at the bottom of other Yorkshire river articles. As has been pointed out, the definition of what is a river is debatable and differs widely, so Op47 your point number 1 is accepted. I have to say that i probably just started with those that had "river" in the name. Therefore, Cod Beck, along with other candidates, were just omitted, no more no less. As for why i put the "officially designated" in the lead paragraph. Hands up, i can't remember, it may have been picked up out of one of the reference articles i was using at the time. I am more than happy that the phrase be removed in its entirety. After all, this is open to be edited by anyone, and i learnt long ago not to get possessive about anything i created on here.
To address Jokulhlaup's point on the opening sentence; I agree that it does not read right. May i suggest that it start with "Of the rivers listed below...."?
The remaining points raised by Op47 seem to be variations on a similar theme about the criteria and citing some of the anomolous examples and it is a quite reasonable argument. So to get to the crucial point of what, if any, should be the defining criteria for inclusion, may i point to the Environment Agency website[1], where they declare that they are the arbiters of what is to be designated a "Main River". It does include those waterways that do not contain the word "River" in them. Before you get your hopes up for an easy to use list; sorry, it is a map which is subject to change, but see what you make of it. As I have said previously, i have no real preference, but would support the view Op47 puts forward that it would be counter productive to list all the really small streams etc. For that matter it could be asking for trouble if was suggested that it was limited to those waterways that had a Wikipedia article, as we could find a lot stub articles being generated that would never develop. Finally you may want to get the view of Keith D, who looks after the Yorkshire Project.Rimmer1993 (talk) 18:02, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the honest reply, if I understand it then this 'should' be a list of main rivers that are named as rivers as well, which seems sensible. I would be interested in Keith D's view as well...Jokulhlaup (talk) 15:31, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So your summation is correct for what we have now. What i think Op47 argues is that some waterways that are not named as "river" should be included too. I agree, but i suggested the criteria could be based upon the Main River map at the Environment Agency. Does that help?Rimmer1993 (talk) 16:06, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The only problem with using main rivers is that you will get other watercourses that are not named as rivers. this list from Derbyshire (I couldn't find anything for Yorkshire) includes a lot of brooks, that people would not think of as rivers. For Yorkshire this would include the Cod Beck, North Yorkshire for example...Jokulhlaup (talk) 15:20, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. In fact I don't think main river is a suitable qualification. As an example, the River Cover is not a main river and yet the unnamed stream at SE 400 976 is. The designation main river is something for the purposes of the environment agency and is not intended to arbitrate what is a river or not a river for our purposes. Given Rimmer1993's response, I would prefer an objective qualification based on size. It may be a good idea to have a column for a river being a main river. Op47 (talk) 12:51, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
After a bit of looking, I think the blue line method that you are suggesting was used for the List of rivers of England, which would make it consistent, and acceptable. So all the ones you have suggested below should be in the England list as well...Jokulhlaup (talk) 14:40, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I did mean Tutt. I will start adding the others when I can. I have also found that the unnamed river is Bradford Beck and it has a substantial article. Op47 (talk) 15:18, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For info, if my criteria were adopted then I would expect the following to be added:
Arkle Beck,NZ0352300501
Armathwaite Gill,SE1002873146
Ashfield Sid Beck,SE1459866416
Barben Beck,SE0488861936
Barney Beck,SE00088 99711
Birkdale Beck,NY86558 01171
Bishopdale Beck,SE01623 87971
Cod Beck,SE4338479116
Costa Beck,SE7931476941
Cowling Beck ?,SE0034344481
Cowside Beck,SD9202370891
Cragg Brook,SE0079324285
Crooks Beck,SD9141386571
Earby Beck,SD9458851141
Eastburn Beck,TA0111455581
Eller Beck,NZ8358901831
Eshton Beck,SD9434854931
Ewden Beck,SK2446396724
Frodingham Beck,TA0826852650
Gayle Beck,SD7871380316
Gayle Beck,SD8710889511
Green Field Beck,SD8703880126
Harden Beck,SE1046838456
Haw Beck,SD9847350496
Hebden Water,SD9718331035
Hodge Beck,SE6917983591
Keasden Beck,SD7151867156
Kelk Beck,TA0905357400
Kingsdale Beck,SD6975376861
Little Beck,SE7489989241
Murk Esk,NZ8191903246
Oughtershaw Beck,SD8728381126
Unnamed out of Bradford,SE1504336845 (Bradford Beck)
Walden Beck,SE0185886836
West Beck,NZ8181900586
Whitsundale Beck,NY8673802181
Widdale Beck,SD8480889866
Op47 (talk) 15:04, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On the other hand, this is a list of the main rivers:

Austwick Beck,SD7675368056
Balne Beck,SE3176422145
Barmston Main Dtrain,TA1700058651
Bedale Beck,SE2855989006
Beverley and Barmston Drain,TA0494944731
Bielby Beck,SE7977944881
Brompton Beck,SE3863497801
Broughton Beck,NZ5499405676
Broughton Bridge Beck,NZ5537408392
Bur Dike,SE5996954351
Burniston Beck,TA0211491516
Catchwater Drain,TA0404444521
Clifton Beck,SE1479324050
Cock Beck,SE4760940311
Cod Beck,SE4326978686
Costa Beck,SE8050976171
Driffield Canal,TA0684455591
Eastburn Beck,SE9983455061
Ella Dyke,TA0245445111
Eller Beck,SD9818354106
Eshton Beck,SD9430854846
Fen Beck,SD7565866631
Fenay Beck,SE1837814960
Frodingham Beck,TA0853953066
Gypsey Race,TA1316967526
Hall Dyke,SE1167311860
Harlsey Beck,SE4037997881
Haw Beck,SD9837351081
Hebden Water,SD9918828085
Hedon Haven,TA1801528105
Hessle Haven,TA0378926215
Hodge Beck,SE6925483451
Holbeck,SE6947978176
Holderness Drain,TA1275933860
Kelk Beck,TA0899456986
Keswick Beck,SE3663944186
Kettles Beck,SD7512865046
Keyingham Drain,TA2261021815
Little Don River,SE1951200524
Little Don River (001),SK2793898434
Long Preston Beck,SD8415858611
Market Weighton Canal,SE8467933950
Marrs Beck,SE6813476936
Mebble Brook,SE0663827500
Mill Beck,SE9069929225
North Beck,SE0457840901
Oak Beck,SE3028458131
Old Howe,TA1062454351
Osbaldwick Beck,SE6429952481
Pickering Beck,SE7940482736
Pocklington Canal,SE7432945056
Potto Beck,NZ4771403356
Rathmell Beck,SD8115358891
Rathmell Beck (001),SD8131857606
Red Beck,SE1277324110
River Aire,SE6509422755
River Calder,SE4169926145
River Colne,SE0924814525
River Crimple,SE3531952666
River Dearne,SE4660402355
River Derwent,SE6980438166
River Don,SE6735915265
River Dove,SE3956904380
River Esk,NZ8788908382
River Foss,SE6155956561
River Foulness,SE8191932845
River Greta,SD6752872361
River Holme,SE1365312895
River Hull,TA0784934645
River Humber,TA1789920875
River Laver,SE2910471661
River Leven,NZ4398912547
River Loxley,SK3194889463
River Nidd,SE4476953311
River Ouse,SE5795441396
River Ribble,SD8109362886
River Riccal,SE7024979596
River Rivelin,SK3167888158
River Rother,SK4340389758
River Ryburn,SE0446721334
River Seven,SE7398979256
River Sheaf,SK3266381773
River Skell,SE2985969786
River Skirfare,SD9671869601
River Spen,SE2483425315
River Swale,SE4314468371
River Tame,NZ5281411232
River Tees,NZ3612911067
River Tutt,SE3780964901
River Ure,SE4731961291
River Washburn,SE2051450131
River Wenning,SD6414869281
River Went,SE6019417415
River Wharfe,SE4625945526
River Wiske,SE3744486276
River Worth,SE0523338961
Scorborough Beck,TA0213446101
Scorton Beck,NZ2546400566
Scurf Dike,TA0647450626
Sea Cut,TA0047989601
Selby Dam,SE5986431975
Shiny Brooke,SE0474810900
Skeeby Beck,NZ2087901266
Skerne Beck,TA0501953411
Southburn Beck,SE9926954541
Stainfort and Keadby Canal,SE7387412020
Swinney Beck,SE1833482156
Tang Hall Beck,SE6343954366
Thorngumbald Drain,TA1907025970
Thornton Beck,SE8350480666
Thornton Beck (001),SE2511962706
Turker Beck,SE3840495041
Unnamed (Addingham),SE0815349866
Unnamed (Anlaby),TA0434428455
Unnamed (Appleton Roebuck),SE5554440681
Unnamed (Beauchief abbey),SK3318881983
Unnamed (Beeford),TA1125953751
Unnamed (Bentley Common),SE5782405745
Unnamed (Bentley),SE5624906480
Unnamed (Bentley) (001),SE5583905375
Unnamed (Bishop Monkton),SE3271965921
Unnamed (Bramham),SE4380944821
Unnamed (Carr House Form),TA0872455806
Unnamed (Cattleholmes),TA0856457536
Unnamed (Chickenley),SE2629421270
Unnamed (Clifton),SE5754454396
Unnamed (Cononley),SD9873346876
Unnamed (Crathorne),NZ4355906856
Unnamed (Denby Dale),SE2434409735
Unnamed (Dewsbury),SE2200422600
Unnamed (Fartown),SE1308318840
Unnamed (Featherstone),SE4344418165
Unnamed (Fitzwilliam),SE4365415375
Unnamed (Flockton),SE2631913630
Unnamed (Fulwood),SK2847885813
Unnamed (Garforth),SE4030930925
Unnamed (Gledhow),SE2806437316
Unnamed (Glusburn),SE0086344446
Unnamed (Heeley),SK3600884463
Unnamed (Hellifield),SD8514356331
Unnamed (Hepworth),SE1619308295
Unnamed (Holgate),SE5877451141
Unnamed (Hornsea),TA2060047356
Unnamed (Ilkley),SE1260848051
Unnamed (Kilnsea),TA4035516810
Unnamed (Leconfield),TA0366943016
Unnamed (Longwood),SE1025317115
Unnamed (Low Moor),SE3999497831
Unnamed (Lowthorpe),TA0863459386
Unnamed (Luddenden),SE0423825610
Unnamed (Marsden),SE0564311860
Unnamed (Mirfield),SE2087420425
Unnamed (Nafferton),TA0652957371
Unnamed (Netheroyd Hill),SE1447819035
Unnamed (Normanton),SE3913423755
Unnamed (Northallerton),SE3755493731
Unnamed (Northfield),TA0355927685
Unnamed (Oakworth),SE0331338356
Unnamed (Oxenhope),SE0358836615
Unnamed (Peasholm),TA0298488621
Unnamed (Ramsden Wood),SD9312321280
Unnamed (Rawcliffe),SE5814454091
Unnamed (Rothwell),SE3423926825
Unnamed (Roundhay),SE3399931705
Unnamed (Salt End),TA1586929595
Unnamed (Seamer),NZ4885408347
Unnamed (Selby),SE6103433835
Unnamed (Selby) (001),SE6035933515
Unnamed (Shade),SD9183823510
Unnamed (Silsden),SE0415845906
Unnamed (Skeffling),TA3763018695
Unnamed (Skeffling) (001),TA3862017800
Unnamed (Skellow),SE5284910395
Unnamed (Skerne),TA0563454431
Unnamed (Skibeden),SE0098852281
Unnamed (Slaithwaite),SE0697814325
Unnamed (Slaithwaite) (001),SE0810814955
Unnamed (Slaithwaite) (002),SE0813313375
Unnamed (Thorpe Marsh),SE5873409150
Unnamed (Todmorden),SD9257325535
Unnamed (Totley),SK3154379548
Unnamed (Wakefield),SE3047421545
Unnamed (Warland),SD9500320145
Unnamed (Waterthorpe),SK4368883028
Unnamed (Westwick),SE3460966046
Unnamed (Whiston),SK4440389888
Wath Beck,SE7130977051
Watton Beck,TA0566948186
Winestead Drain,TA3005520800
Winton Beck,SE4073997606
Op47 (talk) 18:46, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

New rivers

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I have recently added 6 rivers (by name) that have been overlooked. Am I ok to get the rest of the information by tracing out on my OS map? Op47 (talk) 13:44, 6 May 2016 (UTC) Also would it be appropriate to complete the remaining entries in the same way. Op47 (talk) 13:45, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think that would come under WP:OR, but I’m not sure how it was done for the original article. You may find some useful information on length on this Environmental Agency website. Also, did you mean the River Tutt at Boroughbridge? see this link...Jokulhlaup (talk) 14:42, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As an example, The Aire has acitation to a site that may or may not be reliable. The Ure has no citation and I had no success finding a source online. Our current length is given as 118km. I measured it as 115.5. The article on OR does allow routine calculations by concensus. I am not sure if this is stretching it. Oddly enough, the drainage basins can be sourced. I should also point out that my map is Fugawi, so I am confident of getting a reasonable answer. Op47 (talk) 16:11, 13 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]