Talk:List of underwater explorers

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Inclusion criteria

What are the inclusion criteria? These given are far too vague. What makes a speleologist or an oceanographer an undersea explorer? Does there have to be a Wikipedia article on the person? What about explorers under fresh water? Does the person have to have explored by physically going under the surface of the sea? · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 02:34, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion: I agree that the criteria are insuffiently strict. I just edited the section on Submersible Designers and Pilots -- I added Barton, Cameron, and Vescovo, all three of which were involved with the design and diving of their own craft. But here I find Allyn Vine who had no input into the design of the Alvin, nor did he ever dive in any submersible to my incomplete knowledge. Worse, are two names of divers, who apparently never dived in any submersible, much less involved with designing one. This article needs major attention. Gwyncann (talk) 19:00, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Insufficiently strict is an understatement. some of the criteria listed in the lead are just plain wrong or misleading for this title. I do think that the title is valid as an encyclopedic topic, so we need to define an undersea explorer. I will start by making the hopefully uncontroversial claim that it is a person who has explored below the surface of the sea, and the more debatable suggestion that they have done this in person, either as a diver or as a crewmember of a submersible. I base this logic on the assumption that one would not claim that an astronomer who has mapped the moon or mars would be a Lunar or Martian explorer, or that a person who had done airborne surveys of a jungle or mountain range would not be called an explorer of that jungle or mountain range. I await rebuttal, hopefully with evidence from a reliable source. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 07:55, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In the continued absence of any objection, I have rewritten the inclusion criteria, and will rearrange the list alphabetically. Some of the people listed fit into more than one category, and if you want a list of underwater archeologists there can be a list for that too. Each entry should either be linked to an existing Wikipedia article about the person, in which they are identified as an underwater explorer by a reliable source, or if there is no article yet, the source must be appended to their entry in this list. Both is also good. Each entry can also have a short listing of the categories of underwater exploration they are known for. In theory this could be done as a sortable table, but that is a problem on mobile view, which is what most of our readers use, and is much more work to produce and maintain. If anyone has reasons why it should be different, please make your case with logic and evidence supporting your arguments. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 12:30, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Undersea or Underwater?

There is a difference. A lot of cave diving is not in the sea, and there are also other significant bodies of fresh water which are explored, such as the North American great lakes, where there are many wrecks. I propose moving this article to Underwater explorers if no-one objects, as the scope is more inclusive, and avoids the problem of having to remove some of the notable cave and wreck divers. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 11:49, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I also intend to remove the section on first generation diving safety officers as inappropriate. Either the person explored the underwater environment or they did not. Their status as a diving officer of whatever generation is not relevant. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 11:49, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No objections, so will make the move. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 09:17, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]