Talk:Loyset Compère

Composer project review

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This article is seemingly B-class, as it resembles other Renaissance composer biographies. However, Compère has had several biographical and musicological works written about him, that are not referenced here. This means it is difficult to assess completeness, especially around the assertions of missing knowledge. My full review are on the comments page; questions and comments can be left here or on my talk page. I give it a B, but only very reluctantly. Magic♪piano 16:35, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

It also bears mentioning that someone with enough French should be cribbing from fr:Loyset Compère to add to this article. Magic♪piano 16:45, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually they translated it from me. See for example the first sentence of "works" -- "À la différence de ses contemporains, Compère semble avoir écrit peu de messes — ou tout au moins, peu nous sont parvenues. De tempérament, il apparaît plutôt comme un miniaturiste, ses compositions les plus populaires et les plus nombreuses relèvent des plus courtes formes de son temps : essentiellement chansons et motets" which is the same as it currently stands in English. Notice also their sources section. Then someone expanded it a bit (especially the life section, and by adding a paragraph and the musical example to works). I think I will incorporate that into the English article. Since this was one of my earlier composer articles back in summer 2004, I wasn't being as thorough in pillaging sources (I used only Reese and the 1980 Grove, which I have in hard copy). I wouldn't mind expanding this article based on some more current publications (seriously doubt anyone else will get to it -- as far as I can tell no one else at Wikipedia even watchlists this stuff). Antandrus (talk) 17:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, I wasn't sure which came first, the cart or the horse, but the French article (which I only partly picked through in my fr-1 French) clearly seemed to cover more, so I thought I'd mention it. Magic♪piano 17:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

• Lazy buggers should note that the article is largely a translation. Antandrus, what do you make of this:

D'après Jean Molinet (1435-1507), qui connaissait bien Compère, le compositeur était issu d'une famille de Saint-Omer. Un document milanais daté de 1476 le présente comme un ecclésiastique venant d'Arras. Pourtant, une ordonnance de Charles VIII d'avril 1494 confère à Compère la nationalité française et précise expressément qu'il est originaire du Hainaut. On n'a pu éclaircir ces contradictions. This is unreferenced, but if true we could add it in to the current article here. Eusebeus (talk) 22:26, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow. That appears to be a translation of this, from Joshua Rifkin's article in the online New Grove: "According to the poet Jean Molinet, who evidently knew him well, Compère belonged to a family from St Omer, in the county of Artois; a Milanese document of 1476, moreover, describes him as a cleric of Arras, also in Artois. Nevertheless, a decree written by Charles VIII of France in April 1494, granting Compère French nationality so that he could safeguard benefices acquired during royal service, explicitly calls him a native of Hainaut." Note that I did not use the online, recent New Grove to write the article in summer 2004 -- I only used my 1980 set. Clearly I need to update the article with the more current research. That's the first suggestion I have ever heard of Compère maybe having some origin other than French. Too bad it's not a famous 19th century composer: we could have a huge entertaining nationalist edit-war on our hands! Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 23:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, if he's from Artois, he's "French", although under Burgundian-Valois rule. If Hainault, he's clearly a Walloon (Flamand wallone). I searched through my copy of Molinet and couldn't find him mentioned, but I'll take Grove as authoritative.... I guess .... hmmm... Does Rifkin have a cite for his Molinet claim? I'll go find it if so. (Only b/c I am too lazy to go look up Grove myself and you seem to have it under the fingers...). Eusebeus (talk) 23:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment

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Comment(s)

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==Composers Project Assessment of Loyset Compère: 2008-12-15== This is an assessment of article Loyset Compère by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano. If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down. Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status. ===Origins/family background/studies=== Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described? see summary re references ===Early career=== Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? see summary re references ===Mature career=== Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? see summary re references ===List(s) of works=== Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article. ok ===Critical appreciation=== Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)? ok ===Illustrations and sound clips=== Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.) good, but more images would be better; article has enough length to support more ===References, sources and bibliography=== Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references? Article has standard references; works dedicated to him were not consulted. No inline references. ===Structure and compliance with WP:MOS=== Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.) ok ===Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review=== Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD) ===Summary=== This is a nice article. It tells us about the man's background and professional movements, as well as his compositions. It is lacking in inline citations, and could use more images. Musicologists have written books dedicated to his life and work (Google Books turns up works by Finscher and Wesner with his name in the title); presumably more can be written about him. I'll give the article a B, as its presently comparable to articles about similar figures; the lack of reference to dedicated works needs to be corrected. Magic♪piano 16:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 16:32, 15 December 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 22:33, 29 April 2016 (UTC)