Talk:M16 rifle

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Wars & Uses[edit]

There is enough video & picture material that proves a largescale possession and use of M16 rifles in the Syrian Civil War. Like most of the aspects of the war, I cannot objectively quantisize their use, but video & picture material as well as Syrian Arab Army members suggest widespread use, as does the fact that since the start of the war, a very large part of the FSA-weaponry in general has western origins (illustrated amongst other things by the death of Gilles Jacquier due to an Energa). I therefore recommend adding the Syrian civil war to the wars where this weapon is used, and the Free Syrian Army to its users. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.211.221.204 (talk) 18:05, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

A reliable source is all that is needed (e.g. a newspaper article) and the information can be added. Knowing the extent of use is nice but not necessary for inclusion in wars/users sections.--Sus scrofa (talk) 19:35, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Muzzle devices[edit]

I believe that the following info should be removed from the Muzzle device section as they are overly detailed, give undo weight to the Vortex Flash Hider and have a ring of marketing.

The Vortex Flash Hider is a flash suppressor made by Smith Enterprise Inc. and has been called the "most effective flash hider available short of a (sound) suppressor" by writer and gunsmith Patrick Sweeney, when used on an M16 or AR-15.[53][54] The Vortex made for M16 rifles weighs 3 ounces, is 2.25 inches in length and does not require a lock washer for attachment to the barrel.[55] It is one of the earliest privately designed muzzle devices and was first developed in 1984. The Vortex Flash Hider is used by the US Military on M4 carbines and M16 rifles with the NATO Stock Number of NSN 1005-01-591-5825, PN 1001V.[56] A variant of the Vortex has been adopted by the Canadian Military for use on the Colt Canada C8 CQB rifle.[57] Other flash suppressors developed for the M16 include the Phantom Flash Suppressor by Yankee Hill Machine (YHM) and the KX-3 by Noveske Rifleworks.[58]
The threaded barrel allows sound suppressors with the same thread pattern to be installed directly to the barrel; however this can result in complications such as being unable to remove the suppressor from the barrel due to repeated firing on full auto or three round burst.[59] A number of suppressor manufacturers such as Advanced Armament Corporation, Gemtech, Smith Enterprise, SureFire and OPS Inc. have turned to designing "direct-connect" sound suppressors which can be installed over an existing M16's flash suppressor as opposed to using the barrel's threads.[59]

--71.22.156.40 (talk) 20:11, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I would disagree. The Vortex is mentioned because it has been described as the most effective and it was the first major improvement to a flash suppressor that came from the private sector. It was so effective that it is used on M16s and has its own NSN. Other types are mentioned and this gives the section balance. The superiority of the direct-connect suppressor is mentioned because full auto fire through the M16 can leave one which threads to the barrels virtually welded in place.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 20:19, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I am not opposed to the mention of the Vortex. I simply believe that the info provided sounds more like marketing than an Encyclopedia article. Also, that the Vortex is being given undo weight as only a small fraction of that M16s in current production use the device. Despite its effectiveness, the Vortex is primarily sold on the commercial market to civilians as an attachment to the semi-auto AR-15 rifle.

For example, in the design section it mentions the M68, ACOG and EOTech sights. However, the article does not spend a paragraph discussing the merits of each sight. See below...

The current United States Army and Air Force issue M4 Carbine comes with the M68 Close Combat Optic and Back-up Iron Sight.[71][72] The United States Marine Corps uses the ACOG Rifle Combat Optic[73][74] and the United States Navy uses EOTech Holographic Weapon Sight.[75]

--71.22.156.40 (talk) 22:12, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Having an NSN does not make something standard use. The section on the Vortex flash hider needs a significant edit. Also, there is no proof that it is the most effective.

JessAveryJA (talk) 16:10, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Direct Impingement[edit]

The MAS-49_rifle states that the (MAS-49) direct impingement system "Similar direct impingement designs include the Swedish AG-42 Ljungman semi-automatic rifle adopted in 1942 and the US M16 select-fire rifle adopted in 1963." Similar statement is made in Ag_m/42. Shouldn't this page have a similar sentence? Something on the lines of "The M16 rifle uses a direct impingement system similar to that of the Swedish AG-42 Ljungman semi-automatic rifle adopted in 1942 and the French MAS-44 and MAS-49 rifles, the later adopted in 1949."

Now if the case is made the direct impingement system used in the M16 is completely original and not copied/derived/inspired by those toher rifles, I beleive the entries for the MAS-49_rifle and the Ag_m/42 should reflect this lack of relationship with the M16. SupremeDalek (talk) 02:34, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Project SALVO & SPIW sections[edit]

Project SALVO & SPIW sections had nothing to do with the development of the M16 and should be removed.

One might be able to argue, that 30 years later, Project SALVO led to the development of the three-round-burst mechanism on the M16-A2. However, the section makes no such claims. Even if it did, it does not justify 6 detailed paragraphs in the history section. It would only need to be mentioned in a sentence or two in the M16-A2 section.

As for the Special Purpose Individual Weapon section, the only connection to the M16 was the development of the under-barrel grenade launcher and the eventual adoption of the M203 grenade launcher. However, the section makes no mention of grenade launchers.

Therefore, I recommend that both section be removed as irrelevant trivia.--RAF910 (talk) 19:06, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

It's my understanding that SALVO came to the conclusion that an intermediate 5.56 mm cartridge in a fully-automatic rifle should be adopted as a new service rifle? Did the project have no bearing on the adoption of the M16?--Sus scrofa (talk) 20:29, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

No, it didn't. Project SALVO spent most of it's efforts on "fléchette" and "duplex load" cartridges. In essence, they concluded that a well aimed short burst of automatic fire (3 to 5 rounds) was more effective than a single well aimed shot.

"Final Report - Small Arms Cartridge" concerning its fléchette development efforts. The report claims that a high velocity 10 grain fléchette is equally lethal as the .30 M2 rifle bullet out to 600 yards. Yet in terms of cartridge weight, five rounds of the saboted fléchette cartridge could be fired for each individual .30'06 cartridge."

It was General Willard G. Wyman, commander of the U.S. Continental Army Command (CONARC) that recommended the development of a .223 caliber (5.56 mm) select-fire rifle in 1957. Based on "Report No. 593. An effectiveness study of the infantry rifle. Ballistic Research Laboratories. Maryland. by Donald L. Hall. March 1952", which recommended the development of a small-caliber, high-velocity cartridge. The Army rejected this request, as they were committed to the M14 rifle and 7.62 NATO cartridge. It was not until the Vietnam war, when battlefield reports indicated that the M14 was uncontrollable in full-auto and that soldiers could not carry enough ammo to maintain fire superiority over the AK-47, did the Army relent and begin development of the AR-15/M16 rifle.--RAF910 (talk) 22:51, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

SALVO and the other text in the section may not directly related, but they seemed have setup things for the M16. I suggest keeping the text as background, but summarize it. -Fnlayson (talk) 13:49, 2 July 2015 (UTC)