Talk:Margaret Starbird

Neutrality of article

The views of Bart Ehrman and Darrell Bock were misrepresented in the Wikipedia article and these have been removed. The Jesus bloodline theory is a recent Fringe theory and this is Ehrman's and Bock's position on Margaret Starbird. Lung salad (talk) 05:29, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

It was claimed that "Secular critics have noted that the various dissident religious groups who believe in a sacred marriage of Jesus and Mary Magdalene are discontinuous from one another rather than existing in a unbroken continuity, and the tradition seems to have flowered in the Middle Ages although their are hints of an intimate relationship between Jesus and Mary in the non-canonical Gnostic Gospels dated to around the 3rd century". I think it's important to have citations for this statement, to know the exact sources for this statement. It was unfair to indirectly credit these statements to Ehrman and Bock. And irreligious skeptics are every bit as critical of the Jesus bloodline theory as Evangelical preachers (eg, James Randi, Joe Nickell, both have gone on record, online and in published books stating their positions on this matter). Lung salad (talk)

I could be wrong, but I thought there was a distinction between the Jesus bloodline theory and the theory of a relationship between Jesus and MM per se (with or without a bloodline), the latter having an older provenance. I certainly never meant to imply that BE thought J was married, or say so in the article. But there were indeed pre-20th century groups who thought Jesus was married. Certainly, some 13th century accounts claim that the Catharists believed this, and some fringe Mormon groups believed this (and didn't also some fringe Swedenborgian groups?). As I understand it, the fallacy of The DaVinci Code is to postulate an institutional continuity between these groups (there is no evidence of any) when in fact it's just an idea that crops of now and then (meaning the sacred marriage per se- I fully realize the bloodline theory is strictly 20th century). My reading of all this was a few years ago. If I was unclear by failing to distinguish between the sacred marriage and the Jesus bloodline (they should be kept distinct), and misattributed the discontinuity critique to Bart Ehrman, then I am sorry. The discontinuity critique has certainly been made by someone- I read it along with Ehrman's stuff back in 07-08.

IMO, the article should clearly distinguish sacred marriage and bloodline (they are distinct theories- my regrets for leaving this implicit)- note there have been pre-20th century beliefs in the first of these only, and voice the discontinuity critique, and properly attribute it. I intended to attribute the discontinuity critique to Ehrman- that might have been wrong- but I NEVER meant to claim that Ehrman BELIEVED in the bloodline theory. That was a complete misinterpretation of my contribution!!!!! Whether it is my unclear writing, or Lung salad's misreading cannot be determined.--WickerGuy (talk) 13:23, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I DID of course mean to imply that some Gnostic Gospels hint at (or are construable to imply ) a special amorous relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene. These date to the 2nd century, and of course nothing in the Gnostic Gospels supports sacred bloodline at all. Sorry for not making that clear. (I sort of unconsciously thought that went without saying).--WickerGuy (talk) 13:30, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Finally, it's been a while since I read Starbird, but doesn't she put more emphasis on the sacred marriage, while Baigent (Holy Blood Holy Grail) et al put more emphasis on the bloodline. I don't recall Starbird mentioning the bloodline theory that much to begin with.--WickerGuy (talk) 13:41, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

You're right - the bloodline is not part of Margaret Starbird's theories. She only concentrates on the marriage, that she regards as a typical Judeo equivalent of the hieros gamos ritual observed in other countries' religions. This to Margaret Starbird constitutes the proof that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene - but Starbird also takes it beyond that, into symbolic cosmic dimensions. That's why people regard her as 'New Age'. As for the belief in the marriage existing during the time of the Gnostics and Cathars, that boils down to interpretations of texts rather than actual historical evidence. For example, scholars interpret the "kiss" in the Gospel of Philip as the imparting of divine revelation, and the Cathars' belief as handed down by Peter of Vaux de Cernay is also dependant on interpretation, and I do not think that Starbird has given her views on this latter text. Lung salad (talk)

"To e or not to e? That is the question." The spelling of 'Mary(57) Magdalen'(57) vs. 'Magalene'

In Starbird's first book written in 1993 The Woman with the Alabaster Jar - Mary Magdalen and the Holy Grail, she spells it 'Magdalen': without the e as in the French spelling. But five years later in The Goddess in the Gospels, she spells it 'Magdalene': with the e on the end, which has been the #1 English spelling. "To e or not to e? That is the question." This choice may not seem to be a Big deal, but in fact it is HUGE! A LARGE part of Starbird's revelations are the alphanumeric codes of Hebrew gematria and Greek isopsephy (gematria). The Jewish-Hebrew Holy scriptures and Christian-Greek Holy scriptures were written before the Hindu-Arabic numerals - which are used globally - began to emerge c. 600 AD. To the ancient Hebrew and Greek scribes, their letters doubled as numbers. Unfortunately, Starbird has not encountered Simple(6,74) English(7,74) Gematria(8,74), whereas, 'A-B-C becomes 1-2-3'(74). The English alphanumeric code is simpler and much stronger than it is in either Hebrew or Greek (or Arabic). Mary = 57 = M13+A1+R18+Y25, Magdalen = 57 = M13+A1+G7+D4+A1+L12+E5+N14. The main principle behind 'Step 2' of any language's gematria ('geometry of the language') is names/words with a similar sum have a connect(74) between(74) them, i.e. Mary(57) Magdalen(57), Jesus(74)/Y'shua(74)/Joshua(74)/IESVS(74), Jewish(74), Messiah(74), Cross(74). See http://7seals.yuku.com/topic/25/Simple-English-Gematria-GOD-3-7-4-7-4-July-4th-or-7-April . - Brad Watson, Miami 71.196.11.183 (talk) 23:03, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Teacher

She taught RE classes in her parish, and she was an instructor in German and foreign languages in the 60s and an instructor in basic skills at Central Texas College Extension for most of the 90s until 2004. But the lead should be about what she is noted for, not how she supported herself. Dougweller (talk) 14:54, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

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