Talk:Mariss Jansons

NPOV

The edits by 217.42.253.118 aren't exactly neutral. They sound rather like an advertisement for a concert by Mariss Jansons.

~ Nauraran 21:53, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Agree. Probably taken from a cover ;-) Jakro64 19:31, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I've taken the offending passage out of the article. Here it is, for the curious:

His performances are transcendent journeys which penetrate the emotional nucleus of the score and hence are usually met with rapturous applause: an unusual feat in the world of Classical Music. Despite his great charisma, his interpretations never tend towards being self-indulgent, and one cannot put enough emphasis on the amazing cathartic sensation experienced upon living through a Jansons concert. He is a truly exciting conductor and a great proponent of Classical music in the 21st Century.

It is, as you say, pretty clearly not NPOV. If we can quote a reputable critic or somebody saying how wonderful he is, then fine, but the Wikipedia itself should not have an opinion on the transcendent quality of his journeys, or on the difficulty of eliciting applause from a classical audience. --Camembert 14:27, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Subjective text

The description of "dullwitted" from Lebrecht is not an expression from Jansons himself, but a paraphrase of Lebrecht's offhand comment in that on-line article. Because that comment is not directly attributable to Jansons, it has no place in the article. Thus it has been removed. DJRafe (talk) 15:16, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

It can be reworked into the article, provided that all subjective content is clearly attributed to Lebrecht per WP:NPOV. I'll give it a shot. Grover cleveland (talk) 15:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

GC, you did well, as much as possible whilst respecting the posting. But, IMHO, the quote still reflects Lebrecht's thoughts, and not Jansons' thoughts. I left things intact, but just wanted to let you know MHO. DJRafe (talk) 04:48, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

After a second (and third, etc.) look, I've concluded that the Lebrecht comment is pure Lebrecht and has no indication of reflecting anything of Jansons' thinking. Thus it is out of the most recent edits. DJRafe (talk) 22:41, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Relevant

It has now been inserted twice into the article's lead, without sources, that Jansons' grandfather was an explorer. Is this relevant? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:29, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Although I am not sure about Jansons' grandfather, I think following sentence "His mother, the singer Iraida Jansons, who was Jewish, gave birth to him in hiding in Riga, Latvia, after her father and brother were killed in the Riga Ghetto. As a child, he first studied violin with his father." don't need any citation, because that is known to all as common sense. So I canceled this sentence's citation.Riga Daugava (talk) 16:03, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Wives

"He and his first wife, Ira, had a daughter" ... "Jansons and his second wife Irina"

Ira and Irina are two forms of the same name, Ira being informal of Irina, and could never be written in official documents. In passport, they both have name Irina. In family, he called them both Ira. Hence it would make sense to call them both Irina. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.228.206.174 (talk) 18:58, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Mariss Jansons/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Was his father killed in the Ghetto, or did he die on the podium?

Last edited at 17:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 23:11, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Day of death

According to family sources, Mariss Jansons passed away at approximately 2:00am on 1 December 2019 in St. Petersburg. This is not only confirmed by Mariss' daughter on Latvian TV (as noted below), but also privately by family sources to me. The following sources were correct, including the last two orchestras of which Mariss was music director: https://www.br-so.com/instrumentation/mariss-jansons/; https://www.concertgebouworkest.nl/en/mariss-jansons; https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/mariss-jansons-conductor-celebrated-around-the-world-dies-at-76/2019/12/02/a1979522-1504-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html; https://www.france24.com/en/20191201-renowned-latvian-conductor-mariss-jansons-dies-aged-76 Mesteban (talk) 18:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC) I am confused. Newspapers say 30 November, but this official statement by one of his former orchestras says it differently. Maybe it's the difference in time zones, Saint Petersburg vs. Western Europe? Here is the English version of the link. Hartenhof (talk) 11:57, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

The Russian source that was originally referred to by both the Latvian and Russian wikis (so, close to the source and probably in the correct time zone) also mentions 1 december: https://www.classicalmusicnews.ru/news/ushel-iz-zhizni-maris-jansons/ . – gpvos (talk) 11:32, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Wikidata has collected some sources and prefers 1 December (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q158340). Grimes2 (talk) 19:49, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

I would certainly give more credence to the website of the Concertgebouw than to "newspapers". Martinevans123 (talk) 20:34, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Concertgebouw, dated 1 December, says "last night". The actual time of death overnight may not be evident. Jmar67 (talk) 01:50, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

I think, the familie found him dead in the morning. Then its impossible to determine the exact date of death. We should state: 30 November 2019 or 1 December 2019, like in Latvian Wikipedia. Grimes2 (talk) 05:34, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

This is not uncommon. But biographical articles at English Wikipedia which employ two dates certainly are uncommon. It might be better to go with the majority of high quality sources, which seems to be 30 November, but with a footnote added explaining the circumstances? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:56, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Sources like The New York Times, BBC, Concertgebouworkest, Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks postulate 1 December. SWR, Deutsche Welle, Frankfurter Rundschau, Süddeutsche Zeitung, neue musikzeitung, Berliner Philharmoniker, The Guardian postulate 30 November. Very difficult to decide. Grimes2 (talk) 20:31, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, difficult. As nobody knows. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:34, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

The lead reference (BR Klassik) says (translated) "in the night leading to 1 December". That is a common approach in German language sources when the time of death is not known. In Germany at least, both dates are recorded for legal purposes. I have very personal experience with that. Jmar67 (talk) 02:16, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I am not certain if the 'lead reference' is to this BR Klassik article by Fridemann Leipold, but if so, this would be the immediately relevant passage:

"In der Nacht zum 1. Dezember ist der Chefdirigent des Symphonieorchesters des Bayerischen Rundfunks im Alter von 76 Jahren verstorben, wie BR-KLASSIK aus Kreisen der Familie erfuhr." This translates (via Google Translator, admittedly quite well) as: "On the night of December 1, the chief conductor of the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks died at the age of 76, as BR-KLASSIK learned from circles of the family."

The Bavarian Radio SO page now gives 1 December as Jansons' date of death:

German version: "Mariss Jansons, Chefdirigent des Chores und des Symphonieorchesters des Bayerischen Rundfunks, ist am 1. Dezember im Alter von 76 Jahren verstorben."

English version: "At the age of 76, our chief conductor Mariss Jansons has passed away on December 1st."

With the benefit of hindsight, it would appear as though 1 December looks to be the date to use. The orchestra's own website has the benefit of editing and placing new entries later on, as the situation clarifies or becomes less muddied. Newspapers must report in the moment as best as they can. Will watch for additional discussion here. DJRafe (talk) 06:42, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

As far as BR Klassik goes, Google screwed that one up. "In der Nacht zum 1. Dezember" is not "On the night of December 1", which, while somewhat ambiguous, strongly implies the evening of December 1. And that can be ruled out. Jmar67 (talk) 11:39, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

The first reference in the article is this obituary from The Guardian which gives 30 November. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:52, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

The new Latvian TV reference which I have put in the article is quite clear, in citing Jansons' daughter, that his DOD was 1 December, i.e. after midnight on 1 December. The time of posting of that video article is 10:58, in the morning, on 1 December, which refutes the earlier comment on the Google translation. This Latvian TV article is now the first reference (simply being first isn't sufficient, but The Guardian article being first was happenstance, as fine a tribute as it is). However, for the sake of compromise, the DOD is given as 30 November/1 December, to account for any ambiguity. Both the BRSO and the KCO have clearly gone with 1 December as his DOD in their tribute pages. DJRafe (talk) 17:19, 22 December 2019 (UTC)