Talk:Max Bruch

Death date

Are we sure about this new death date? I did a quick google search and came up with both values. -- Rmrfstar 22:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

His violin concerto

Did Bruch write another violin concerto? Both the recordings I have of this one (his Violin Concerto (Bruch)) say only "Violin Concerto", etc. etc. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  23:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Bruch did wrote 3 violin concertos, but except his first concerto, the others are very rarely be performed nowadays. I can say that these pieces are being forgotten by us.(Addaick 12:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC))

However, none other than Jascha Heifetz made the world premiere recording of the 2nd, in 1954, with the RCA Victor Symphony Orchestra under Izler Solomon. This recording is available, and deserves a hearing. -- JackofOz 02:22, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I read somewhere that Bruch was irritated at people forgetting he'd written two other violin concertos and how they never were performed, although he thought them just as good as the first. Mtsmallwood (talk) 06:38, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Composers can be forgiven for having a biased opinion of their lesser-known works that they slaved over and poured their hearts into, even if the rest of the world doesn't think much of them. But that doesn't excuse anyone, particularly record companies, concert organisations etc, referring to the first of his 3 violin concertos as "the Bruch Violin Concerto". -- JackofOz (talk) 11:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

In a 1887 letter to his publisher, he wrote: Every fortnight another [violinist] comes to me wanting to play the First Concerto; I have now become rude, and tell them: 'I cannot listen to this concerto any more – did I perhaps write just this one? Go away, and play the other concertos, which are just as good, if not better.' This sentiment was compounded by the fact that he had sold the rights to the first concerto so was not paid for any of its many performances thereafter. Jmsofia (talk) 22:41, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

While perhaps rarely performed on the international concert circuit, Bruch's other concertos are well represented on the recording format, and are appreciated via that route. His "Serenade, Op.75" in a-minor is virtually another concerto, and is an engaging work. 98.67.188.192 (talk) 10:57, 18 January 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

His middle names

Max Christian Friedrich Bruch ..., also known as Max Karl August Bruch

I've looked in vain for anything about why he got 2 sets of middle names, or which version was the original, or why the latter version (whichever one it was) came into use, or whether Bruch himself used both versions. Does anyone have any information about this? I did read that he had a son, also named Max, for whom he wrote some of his pieces for the clarinet. Is it possible that Christian Friedrich was the father and Karl August was the son, or vice-versa, and somehow they got confused in the historical record? -- JackofOz (talk) 21:58, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Nope. His son was Max Felix Bruch. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:50, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Britannica asserts his name was Max Karl August, with no reference to Max Christian Friedrich.

On the other hand, Christopher Fielding's tome Max Bruch: His Life and Work says he was born Max Christian Friedrich, with no mention of any Max Karl August.

German WP tells us his father's name was August Karl Friedrich Bruch. I'm suspecting someone's confused the father with the son, and also confused the order of the father's names when misapplying them to the son.

Is there no birth certificate or truly authoritative source that can sort this mess out once and for all? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 00:06, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

A bit of history. Our article has been in existence since 8 December 2002. Initially, it gave no middle names, just Max Bruch. On 18 August 2005, User:Sstrader provided the middle names Christian Friedrich. It wasn't until 16 September 2007 that Karl August got into the picture. That edit was unsourced and made by an unregistered user who has made all of 3 edits to Wikipedia. I'd happily remove it - were it not for Britannica also telling the same story. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 00:30, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Grove and the Oxford Companion to Music both have Max Christian Friedrich. Jmsofia (talk) 22:46, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

• I've adopted a solution that I think is best until we can get to the bottom of why 2 different sets of middle names appear in the literature. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:53, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Judaism

It says there is no evidence that Bruch was of Jewish ancestry, but was it common practice for non-Jewish composers to make settings of Jewish sacred music...? evin290 (talk) 01:03, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Maybe not common, but Bruch isn't the only one by far either. Ravel, for instance, made a setting of the Kaddish (and another Hebrew song), and Dave Brubeck wrote a cantata called The Gates of Justice, off the top of my head. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 01:11, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Shostakovich often used Jewish folk-tunes in his pieces. Mahler used some Chinese melodies in the 'Song of the Earth,' but he was hardly Chinese.98.67.188.192 (talk) 10:53, 18 January 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

your question derives from the very common misconception that we creative types take our raw material from our own cultural environment. this is not true. it may be the case for some - perhaps they are so entirely enamoured of their roots that it satisfies them to work with only those threads. but others - and i am one - want to get our hands into other cultures, other ways of thinking, of being, of feeling.65.93.35.157 (talk) 23:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

And let's not forget that Handel, who wrote "Messiah," was Jewish. Just one more example of a composer doing a wonderful job working with another religion's material. Roland the music lover. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.251.206.178 (talk) 20:34, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Handel was Jewish? Are you insane? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HBBorges (talk • contribs) 04:37, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Destitution

I have read elsewhere (on the page for his first violin concerto) that he fell destitute during WWI. Does anyone have any information about this for the article? EdwardRussell (talk) 14:27, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

  Radio station Kbach recently reported that he was destitute when he died.Abenr (talk) 00:59, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Bruch website

The link to the "Bruch website" appears to be broken. Msboz (talk) 23:32, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

After an hour of searching, I found the list was "archived" here: http://web.archive.org/web/20071230102156/http://www.wooster.edu/music/twood/bruchcatalog.html. IXQuick wasn't good enough to find it; had to resort to Google.

OK, replaced old URL with new, with a minimum editing of the text. ne3j 151.213.48.90 (talk) 00:32, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

In his time he was known primarily as a choral composer...

... but the article doesn't say anything about his choral works. 151.213.48.90 (talk) 22:04, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Marriage

On page 182 of his 2005 book Max Bruch: His Life and Works, Christopher Fifield says this: "Max had returned to Berlin for Christmas in December 1880 and married Clara on 3 January 1881. The newly weds returned to Liverpool and took lodgings at 18 Brompton Avenue Sefton Park..." Martinevans123 (talk) 23:24, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

The Bruch at the SO in 1898 was Wilhelm

The name "Max Bruch" instead of "Wilhelm Bruch" got into the list of principal conductors of the [Royal] Scottish [National] Orchestra (1898). I have changed it to "Wilhelm" (refs RSNO web site; article announcing appointment on p6 of Glasgow Herald 21/07/1898; list of principal conductors in the RSNO Wikipedia page.

I guess the RSNO Conductors template is no longer appropriate to this page, but I'm hesitant to do such a big deletion. Perhaps the author of the article would review it? Wyresider (talk) 22:14, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

NPOV issues?

I'm as much of a Bruch fan as the next person, but I noticed a little bit of fanboy-type wordings, especially in the "Works" section. Just look at how it starts: "His complex and unfailingly well-structured works..." The rest of that section follows a similar overly-effulgent tone favoring Bruch. I'd rather not be the one to fix everything - I'll leave that to the rest of you. But I strongly feel that it should be done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.126.8.198 (talk) 00:49, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Personal life narrative error

In this section, it says that after his marriage the couple returned to Liverpool. But I don’t think that there’s anthing anywhere in the article to say that he had ever been there before. How, then, can they be returning? Boscaswell talk 07:36, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Wife's full name

This article gives his wife's name as "Clara Tuczek". The German Wikipedia says the same thing.

Wikidata shows her full name as "Altistin Clara Philippine Tuczek", giving the German Wikipedia as the source. The German Wikipedia points to the Fifield book as the source for the information about his marriage, and I don't have access to that book. Does the book indeed say that this is her full name? If not that book, then is there any other source that says it?

Googling for this four-word name brings up only Wikidata, so I have certain suspicions. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:16, 5 October 2023 (UTC)