Talk:Michigan Wolverines football

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No-shutout streak[edit]

I agree that the NCAA record book re the streak (said by NCAA to be 362 at the end of 2012) cannot immediately be squared with the number of games apparently played by Michigan since the 1984 shutout loss to Iowa. But I'm loathe to substitute a hand-counted NCAA record for what the NCAA says the record is. My solution for the moment is to stick literally to the source ("362 games through 2012") rather than mess around with our own counts, or perhaps worse, adding the 13 games of the 2013 season to the (apparently incorrect) NCAA source to produce a figure, 375, that is not only questionable, but also OR. Ideally someone would call this to the NCAA's attention and get them to fix it - or explain where they got the extra games. Meanwhile I'm not comfortable abandoning what would seem to be the single best source on the matter. Any other thoughts? JohnInDC (talk) 14:23, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Guaranteed: if we keep talking about it they will be shutout this season.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:54, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
I've changed the figure back to the "official" 362 from the 375 through 2013, that had been in the article for a while before this. It is pretty clear that the NCAA record book is wrong - all one has to do is to tally up the Michigan games played after the Iowa game in 1984 through today to see that. Here's the official Michigan athletic site and all the games for anyone who wants to do it themselves: . As I said, I am uncomfortable substituting a hand-counted OR figure for the official NCAA record, but I'm just about as uncomfortable adding 13 games to a number that is demonstrably wrong, whether we describe the problem as "OR" or just mistaken. I am not tickled by leaving it at 362 through 2012 and citing to the NCAA without comment, but that approach at least has the advantages of 1) being perfectly consistent with the source and 2) at least in the ballpark of correct. If folks think differently, please let's discuss it here. A third option might be to footnote it and note the issue. JohnInDC (talk) 12:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I didn't realize the NCAA record book was in error. So we believe that the actual streak is 364 to date, correct? Jweiss11 (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I think. Though for that I'm relying on the IP / new editor who appears to have counted it himself. JohnInDC (talk) 16:25, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I counted and got 364 as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:18, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
What do you think makes sense to do? JohnInDC (talk) 17:28, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Not sure. I asked User:Paulmcdonald, who recently wrote this essay: Wikipedia:Counting and sorting are not original research, to comment. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:33, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I'm with JohnInDC, I say go with the hand-counted number, but footnote it to say what the NCAA record book says. — X96lee15 (talk) 20:04, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Wow, that's interesting! Imagine the NCAA being wrong about something... In this case, I would be sure to note in the article the discrepancy and provide a reference to the counted version. But there's nothing wrong with counting if its reasonable that a person can count -- WP:COUNTSORT.--Paul McDonald (talk) 22:32, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, maybe the correct number, annotated, is the way to go. Good to leave a link to the NCAA page in any event, as that is what establishes the BYU (prior) record - JohnInDC (talk) 22:48, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I just reverted the 364 figure, which cited to a personal website for support. I don't oppose using that number but we need to make it clear what we're doing, and drop a note to the effect that the NCAA is wrong. We also need to make the same point on the "longest scoring streak" page, the name of which escapes me now. Who among us knows how to drop an explanatory footnote? I can't figure it out but if someone will help me out with that, I'll make the edit myself. JohnInDC (talk) 22:45, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

This page: List of most consecutive games scoring in NCAA football. JohnInDC (talk) 01:30, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Fixed them both. JohnInDC (talk) 01:51, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── The 2014 NCAA record book incremented the record by last year's contests and remains out of whack. This sets a modern record for "Consecutive errors in an NCAA record book", which now stands at 10 - I looked back, and the error exists all the way back to 2005, when (as best I can tell) they began to include this statistic. When I have a moment I'll update the refs and the footnote. Meanwhile, just for kicks, here's my own calculation of the streak, for the benefit of others who may be coming to this issue more recently:

1984 – 5   00 – 12 - 200
85 – 12 - 17   01 – 12 - 212
86 – 13 - 30   02 – 13 - 225
87 – 12 - 42   03 – 13 - 238
88 – 12 - 54   04 – 12 - 250
89 – 12 - 66   05 – 12 - 262
90 – 12 - 78   06 – 13 - 275
91 – 12 - 90   07 – 13 - 288
92 – 12 - 102   08 – 12 - 300
93 – 12 - 114   09 – 12 - 312
94 – 12 - 126   10 – 13 - 325
95 – 13 - 139   11 – 13 - 338
96 – 12 - 151   12 – 13 - 351
97 – 12 - 163   13 – 13 - 364
98 – 13 - 176
99 – 12 - 188

JohnInDC (talk) 14:35, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

By the way, I refuse to take the fall for it if ND winds up shutting out Michigan today. JohnInDC (talk) 02:06, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
No blame on Gardner. All on you! Cbl62 (talk) 02:29, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Henceforth, JinxInDC. Cbl62 (talk) 02:49, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 :) Jweiss11 (talk) 05:23, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────May as well finish the chart, then:

14 –1 - 365

Actually I dropped a note yesterday to the NCAA about this and they agreed with the math. The kicker they tell me came afterwards when Michigan confirmed, sigh, that the streak had ended at 365 games. I guess we can only wonder how long it would have continued if I'd kept my mouth shut. JohnInDC (talk) 11:19, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Postscript: Thanks to my call (!), the NCAA has fixed its record book and it now shows the correct figure. I've updated the ref and removed the footnote. JohnInDC (talk) 15:44, 29 September 2015 (UTC)