Talk:Ministry of Internal Affairs III

A fact from Ministry of Internal Affairs III appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 17 November 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III, despite having tolerated him for years, expelled Carlos the Jackal from Hungary after the bombing of Radio Free Europe's headquarters in Munich?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ministry of Internal Affairs III.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 20:36, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III worked with Czechoslovak and East German intelligence to remove Carlos the Jackal from Hungary due to the bombing of Radio Free Europe's headquarters in Munich?
- ALT1: ... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III was pressured to remove Carlos the Jackal from Hungary due to political pressure from the US government?

Reviewed: Kaczyzm
Comment: Let me know if either hook's a bust. Maybe there's an alternative.

Created by Ominae (talk). Self-nominated at 12:23, 23 October 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Hook ALT1 has a bit of redundancy and could be cleaned up as ... "... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III was pressured politically by the US government to remove Carlos the Jackal from Hungary?" I prefer something more like the first hook though, as it gives slightly more context, and I'm not a fan of clickbait. I'd reword it a bit too (and add a link, though that lengthens the source text from 217 to 280 characters): "... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III, working with Czechoslovak and East German intelligence, removed Carlos the Jackal from Hungary after the bombing of Radio Free Europe's headquarters in Munich?" – Anon423 (talk) 03:44, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
Interesting:
Other problems: - The original hook is over 200 characters. (ALT1 is under.)

QPQ: Done.

Overall: The article requires a bit of copy-editing. – Anon423 (talk) 03:44, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Anon423: Thanks for making the review. I expected the first proposed hook to be a problem.

I'm open to this hook:

"... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III, working with Czechoslovak and East German intelligence, removed Carlos the Jackal from Hungary after the bombing of Radio Free Europe's headquarters in Munich?"

Ominae (talk) 10:58, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ominae: The DYK toolbox "Hook length" counter puts it at 202 printed characters, unfortunately. To get it under, you could change a word, e.g.: "... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III, working with Czechoslovak and East German agencies, removed Carlos the Jackal from Hungary after the bombing of Radio Free Europe's headquarters in Munich?" or remove that phrase entirely to make the hook more short/punchy/catchy: "... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III drove Carlos the Jackal from Hungary after the bombing of Radio Free Europe's headquarters in Munich?" For interest, there's plenty: Carlos the Jackal is catchy epithet, and there's a bombing. The mention of Czechoslovak and East German intelligence agencies is of course factual and deserves to be in the article, but I don't think that context is needed in this hook. For even more catchiness I'm tempted (if it can be supported by the sources) to write something like "... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III drove Carlos the Jackal from Hungary after the bombing of Radio Free Europe's headquarters in Munich, but only due to American pressure?", because that invites the question of why Carlos had been tolerated in Hungary. – Anon423 (talk) 00:01, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Anon423: I guess we can go for this --> "... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III expelled Carlos the Jackal from Hungary after the bombing of Radio Free Europe's headquarters in Munich, but only due to American pressure?"

I used expelled instead of drove for stronger wording. If you think drove is better, I can change it. Ominae (talk) 08:25, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ominae: Seems fine. I agree with "expelled". However, "but only due to American pressure" does seem a bit speculative, implying that without diplomatic pressure from the United States it wouldn't have happened. I'm leery of counterfactuals. Do the sources strongly support the statement? I'd like to be sure. – Anon423 (talk) 23:42, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Anon423: Yep. The book I used for reference does mention American pressure to get Carlos out of Eastern Europe after RFL was attacked in Munich. Ominae (talk) 11:43, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Anon423: Otherwise, I think it should be okay. I'll leave the final word to you. Ominae (talk) 02:21, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ominae: I read the source material, and I'll be honest, I now cannot support including "but only due to American pressure". I think that assertion goes beyond what the source truly supports. I would change the hook to "... that the Ministry of Internal Affairs III, despite having tolerated him for years, expelled Carlos the Jackal from Hungary after the bombing of Radio Free Europe's headquarters in Munich?" I must admit I'm not very familiar with the DYK process, so I was going to step back and let a more experienced reviewer take it, but in my non-expert opinion I suppose it's now ok. With that I'd give it the

. – Anon423 (talk) 11:56, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To T:DYK/P5

@Anon423: No problem. Whatever you think works out. Ominae (talk) 01:18, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]