Talk:Mongols/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2016

Enkhjargal MNG (talk) 20:52, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

I want to change the population statistics and I also want to add some few sources about the related group.

Thank you

 Not done: You don't tell us what you want to change them to. —MRD2014 (talk • contribs) 23:49, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Picture Zhukov and Choibalsan incorrect caption

It says "Khorloogiin Choibalsan, leader of the Mongolian People's Republic (right), and Georgy Zhukov consult during the Battle of Khalkhin Gol against Japanese troops, 1939" whilst Zhukov is standing on the right. Should be changed to (left) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.85.47.22 (talk) 12:15, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

population error

The population number residing in China is incorrect, it's the full population of China instead of the population of Mongols in China. I can't fix it due to the page protection. Kennyavir (talk) 02:00, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2017

Please change / add Total population 9.5–10 million (2010)

China (Inner Mongolia)	5,981,840 (2010)[1]
Mongolia	2,921,287[2]
Russia	647,417[3]
South Korea	34,000[4]
United States	15,000–18,000[5]
Kyrgyzstan	12,000[6]
Czech Republic	6,804[7]
Japan	5,401[8]
Canada	5,350[9]
Germany	3,852[8]
United Kingdom	3,701[8]
France	2,859[8]
Turkey	2,645[8]
Kazakhstan	2,523[8]
Austria	1,955[10]
Malaysia	1,500[8] 

to Nepal as well. As 60% of Nepalese belong to Mongol tribe which is about 964170. Hence, kindly include this in the article so we dont feel left out Choedennn (talk) 10:35, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 12:26, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2017

Change the MONGOLS.jpg to an different image depicting the Mongol ethnic group. The current image by John Thomson is an derogatory depiction of the ethnic group showcasing them as poor and unclean. Even the description of the image by John Thomson states that "The Mongol tribes generally are a stout, squat, swarthy, ill-favoured race of men..." which is offensive and racist. The Mongols should not be depicted by a unflattering picture taken over 100 years ago. Batsabil (talk) 00:32, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Done Changed infobox image per WP:IUP and this edit request. In addition to concerns raised by the requester, the previous image had poor contrast and resolution and was neither easily-visible nor illustrated the article subject well. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 00:43, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Errors - fixed

Grammar

Hi, not sure how to use talk pages really but anyway, this line: "...the Mongols continued to rule the Northern Yuan dynasty in Mongolia homeland" should I believe be written "...the Mongols continued to rule [as] the Northern Yuan dynasty in [the] Mongolia[n] homeland." Perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly and the suggested "as" would not be necessary, but the change to the last part of the sentence is definitely needed, as to say "in Mongolia homeland" is without doubt incorrect grammar and should be edited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.189.131.235 (talk) 15:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Physical characteristics

In terms of physical characteristics Mongolians exhibit a variety of features, with the typical Asian features being most noticeable. Contrary to preconceptions, flat noses are rather rare among Khalkha or Outer Mongolians due to suspected total violation by the Manchu armies or later armies. Instead, modestly long noses are far more common because of the colder weather, with the occasional aquiline nose appearing frequently as well due to possible violation by Western troops including Russian troops under Baron von Ungern Sternberg at the beginning of the past twentieth century. Height and leg length vary from very short to very tall. Hair is typically Asian: straight and coarse, with body hair minimal. Skin color is very light brown, it is possible the marvellous golden shade has been lost to genocide as well as the Rose Petal Skin and the Snow Skin, but long exposure to the sun can make it a very dark brown. A certain number of Mongolians mostly on the western parts of the country can exhibit lighter features such as light to dark blond/brown hair, fairer skin, blue or green eyes, hairiness to varying degrees, probably due to violation by Western troops as referred to, particularly Russian troops who entered Mongolia during World War II. Some have reddish-light brown hair and pink face particularly due to the cold weather, or due to intermarriage with Chinese Turks known also as Uyghurs who have Celtic origin. Epicanthic folds of the eyes now exist on almost all Mongolians along with medium height, broader face, dark hair, high and pronounced cheekbones with genocide disappearance of the Mongol single lids, beautiful and orderly fat puffs,human cold temperature shields, made lovely not to be lost for the need, whoever wants to preserve any of this please send morphine, fresh water, glucose, aspirin and chloroform spray, hydration and feeding for intensive care, bedpans, rolls of cloth, reams of paper, good ballbearing pencils, mobile phones paid for international and national calls for Portugal, light surface to air special genocide protection missile systems, with special UN mandate permission with link to Portuguese government to protect from any Portuguese forces genocide raids against Portugal Santarém district Tagus Santarém district, Almeirim council area, beyond, and starting from Assacaias line to Chamusca, Coruche, or error here or as noticeable as of Assacaias in case of need, soaps, talcum powder, sulphanilamide ointments and powders, zinc ointment, mint concentrate infusion, gas masks, Salacizine, Tetracycline, DDXP, diapers, underwear, socks, cloud grey pyjamas, of thick winter material soft and comfortable, surgical knives, blades, threads, tape, yarn, lamp, flashlight, spoons, forks, knives,plates, bowls, spoons, coal stoves, coal, wood for fire making iron buckets sewage cleaning bins and shovels and wheelbarrows, pickaxes, a Portuguese licence car, binoculars, sky dish against air raids, surgical gloves, vaccines against flu and diphteria, construction adhesive, nails, ropes, and fuel, winter boots, padded mottled grey brown coats discreet, pantyhose warm synthetic and also wool, sand beige, grey, artificial or real beige fur and grey better fur lined padded caps, and thick warm grey, pale brown blankets, vitamins, tinned meat, frozen meat, 2 tonnes, Mongolian-Spanish dictionaries and language courses, sewing kits, surgical thread explain in their language if possible for traumas deck guns with rounds old warship for river passage fuel, if this last gets licence in any case it is humanitarian and Communism permitted or by Christianity and Buddhism thick grey corduroy with insulation, and army green with insulation but write for these caution in their language all sizes, and mustard to brown, both genders in all cases, clean underpants, and drawers pale grey or pale pink or pale army green to beige, black jackets, coats, and pullovers, also dark blue, you can perhaps ask some embassy you are friends with for a money contribution for this or see if you can marry one of the embassy guards for this or undersecretaries

---

ERRORS: 1) Correct term for this article is Mongols, not Mongolians 2) Flat noses are rare? I disagree, who wrote this? 3) Even though the term Mongoloid is offensive and categorisation debunked - it is the correct term to use instead of "Asian features" 4) Contradictory information edited out 5) Even though I support the theory of genetic drift, there are also arguments in favor of 'intermixing'. This a neutral article, and hence 'cold weather' references have been removed.

RESULT:

Physical characteristics

In terms of physical characteristics, ethnic Mongols exhibit a variety of features, with typical Mongoloid features being most noticeable. Epicanthic folds of the eyes exist on almost all Mongols along with high and pronounced cheekbones. Height and leg length vary from very short to very tall, with nose structures varying from flat to the occassional aquiline nose. Hair is generally straight and coarse, with body hair minimal. Skin color is very light brown, but long exposure to the sun can make it darker. A certain number of ethnic Mongols mostly on the western parts of Mongolia and groups further west can exhibit lighter features such as light to dark blond/brown or red hair, fairer skin, blue or green eyes, hairiness to varying degrees.

Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2020

I would like to add "mongols are bound together by a common 'ancestry',heritage and ethnic identity. I would like to add the ancestry part as mongols all share to an extent the same ancestry based on several sources done on mongol genetics. Mongol 1206 (talk) 08:54, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

We already say they are an ethnic group. I'm not quite sure it can be said that people's ancestry binds them together, since it's rather (like we already mention here) ethnic identity that does so. – Thjarkur (talk) 11:13, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 November 2020

I would like to change the total population of the mongols from 10-11 million to a number such as 10,494,346 (the total from this article excluding daurs) or 10,626,338 (including daurs) this comes from the daurs article on wikipedia itself. Thanks for taking it as a consideration to put the total number, your effort is very much appreciated. Mongol 1206 (talk) 09:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: @Mongol 1206: could you provide a link to the actual source used for those numbers on the Daurs article, because according to Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source, Wikipedia itself is not a reliable source. Thanks. Seagull123 Φ 19:11, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344210956_China_Ethnic_Statistical_Yearbook_2020

About the exact number of daurs based on this source, the Wikipedia number is right at 131,992 daurs. We should atleast add these numbers to the mongols in China of 6.2 million and say (including daurs) next to it. Mongol 1206 (talk) 11:42, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2020

I would like to change the total population of the mongols from 10-11 million to a number such as 10,494,346 (the total from this article excluding daurs) or 10,626,338 (including daurs) this comes from the daurs article on wikipedia itself. Thanks for taking it as a consideration to put the total number, your effort is very much appreciated.

Here is the actual source for the number: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344210956_China_Ethnic_Statistical_Yearbook_2020 Mongol 1206 (talk) 01:33, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

​The source you link to does not make a claim of there being 10.5 million Mongols, it says that Mongols in China are 0.5% of the country's population which is about 6,2 million in China. We cannot sum up these numbers to reach an exact figure (because of significant figures), so "10-11 million" is more correct than an exact figure. – Thjarkur (talk) 10:10, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

You should add the daurs population to mongols in China 131,992 Mongol 1206 (talk) 11:39, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

About the exact number of daurs based on this source, the Wikipedia number is right at 131,992 daurs. We should atleast add these numbers to the mongols in China of 6.2 million and say (including daurs) next to it. Mongol 1206 (talk) 11:44, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

What??

Russia: 1,035,000 (including Tuvans and Altai people) We are not Mongols! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.26.232.114 (talk) 13:15, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 July 2021

I want to edit the mongols section because mongols are central Asian/ East Asian people but it only said East Asian. I lived in Mongolia for more than 20 years and I know our history. Aminafrommongolia56 (talk) 09:58, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:39, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Why does it say mongols are East Asian?

Why does it say mongols are East Asian when they are central Asian/East Asian? I am from Mongolia and lived here since I was born. If you ask a Mongolian the question they would answer “төв ази” ( Central Asia). Aminafrommongolia56 (talk) 12:00, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Edit semi-protected

Hello, Mongolian here. I'd like to make a minor distinction. We start with "The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot]; Chinese: 蒙古族) are an East Asian/Central Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia and to China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region".

This is all true. However, why aren't we adding the Buryats and Kalmyks (Oirats) living in Russia? Buryatia is Mongol land absorbed by Russia but we speak the same language, are the same ethnic group, eat the same food and celebrate the same festivals, except governed by Russia due to imperialism (similar to Inner Mongolia in China).

So when we start, we should say, ""The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot]; Chinese: 蒙古族; Russian: Монгольские народы) are an East/Central Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia, Russia's Buryatia, and to China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region".

And we don't have to say Kalmykia since Oirat Kalmyk Mongols migrated to Europe after the fall of the Dzungar Khanate in the 18th century so they aren't native to that region. It's just Buryatia.

Let's hope we don't find pushback from nationalist Russians who claim Buryatia is theirs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TengriinBogd (talk • contribs) 04:14, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. @TengriinBogd: The lead must be a summary of the content already in the article, and needs to be based on reliable sources, per WP:Verifiability. I see a mention of the presence of Mongols in areas outside of Mongolia and China, notably Russia (in the lead itself), but I do not see any sources provided to say they are native to these areas (and given the well known exploits of Genghis Khan, it isn't quite a surprise that the Mongols expended geographically outside of their native lands...). I'd suggest you propose changes to the section on Russia (Mongols#Russia) - which is remarkably short compared to the others - first, to see if there is enough reliably sourced material about this. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 23:48, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Not really sure how Wikipedia works but I hope my response is visible in this publication. I'd love to provide sources that support the change to include Buryatia the same we do as the Inner Mongolian Autonomous Region. The latter is granted "autonomous" status whilst only 16-19% of the population is actually of Mongolian ethnicity, with Han Chinese dominating the indigenous Mongolian lands and many do not get along at all. In the same vein, ethnic Russians, due to colonization of Siberia beginning from the 16th century, have settled in Buryatia in the 17th century in search of wealth, gold, and furs.

Let's see an excerpt from the history of Buryatia in very simple terms:

"Mongolic-related Slab Grave cultural monuments are found in Baikal territory. The territory of Buryatia has been governed by the Xiongnu Empire (209 BC-93 CE) and Mongolian Xianbei state (93-234), Rouran Khaganate (330-555), Mongol Empire (1206-1368), and Northern Yuan (1368-1691). Medieval Mongol tribes like Merkit, Bayads, Barga Mongols and Tümeds inhabited in Buryatia. Today Buryat-Mongols populate the territory of Buryatia.

The area of the present-day Buryatia was first colonized in the 17th century by Russians in search of wealth, furs, and gold.

In 1923, the Buryat-Mongolian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (Buryat: Буряадай Автономито Совет Социалис Республика; Russian: Бурятская Автономная Советская Социалистическая Республика) was created as a result of the merger of State of Buryat-Mongolia and Mongol-Buryat Oblasts. In 1937, Aga Buryatia and Ust-Orda Buryatia were detached from the Buryat-Mongolian ASSR and merged with Chita and Irkutsk Oblasts, respectively. In 1958, the name "Mongol" was removed from the name of the republic. The Buryat ASSR declared its sovereignty in 1990 and adopted the name Republic of Buryatia in 1992. However, it remained an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation. On 11 July 1995 Buryatia signed a power-sharing agreement with the federal government, granting it autonomy. This agreement would be abolished on 15 February 2002."

Not only did ethnic Russians expand from the Rus in today's Ukraine to Asian Siberian territory, the Mongolian territory to this day is Russified, with Cyrillic and Russian being taught to ethnic Buryat Mongols in an effort to assimilate. The term "anti-mongolianism" exists because multiple superpowers attempted (and succeeded largely) to absorb southern tip of Mongolia which is Inner Mongolia and northern tip of Mongolia, which is Buryatia itself.

"During the height of the USSR, Soviet Russian scientists attempted to convince the Kalmyks and Buryats that they were not Mongols during the 20th century (demongolization policy). 35,000 Buryats were killed during the rebellion of 1927 and around one-third of Buryat population in Russia died in the 1900s–1950s. In 1919 the Buryats established a small theocratic Balagad state in Kizhinginsky District of Russia and the Buryat's state fell in 1926. In 1958, the name "Mongol" was removed from the name of the Buryat-Mongol Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic."

I hope this is clear and let me know if you need more information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TengriinBogd (talk • contribs) 03:35, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Requesting a minor addition to the first sentence of the "Mongols" page, which starts with "The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot]; Chinese: 蒙古族) are an East Asian/Central Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia and to China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region".

This is all true, but why are the native Buryat Mongolians of Buryatia, Russia missing from the family? Buryat is a Mongol subgroup and Buryatia is Mongol land absorbed by Russia but we speak the same language, are the same ethnic group, eat the same food and celebrate the same festivals, except governed by Russia due to imperialism (similar to Inner Mongolia in China). The Buryats (Buryat: Буряад, romanized: Buryaad; Mongolian: Буриад, Buriad), a Mongolian people numbering approximately 500,000, comprise one of the two largest indigenous groups in Siberia.

With the addition made, it should say, "The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot]; Chinese: 蒙古族; Russian: Монгольские народы) are an East/Central Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia, China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, and Russia's Republic of Buryatia". In China, Mongolians balance Mongolian and Chinese languages while in Russia, Mongolians balance Mongolian and Russian languages.

Let's see an excerpt from the history of Buryatia in simple terms:

"Mongolic-related Slab Grave cultural monuments are found in Baikal territory. The territory of Buryatia has been governed by the Xiongnu Empire (209 BC-93 CE) and Mongolian Xianbei state (93-234), Rouran Khaganate (330-555), Mongol Empire (1206-1368), and Northern Yuan (1368-1691). Medieval Mongol tribes like Merkit, Bayads, Barga Mongols and Tümeds inhabited in Buryatia. Today Buryat-Mongols populate the territory of Buryatia. The area of the present-day Buryatia was first colonized in the 17th century by Russians in search of wealth, furs, and gold."

However, "During the height of the USSR, Soviet Russian scientists attempted to convince the Kalmyks and Buryats that they were not Mongols during the 20th century (demongolization policy). 35,000 Buryats were killed during the rebellion of 1927 and around one-third of Buryat population in Russia died in the 1900s–1950s. In 1919 the Buryats established a small theocratic Balagad state in Kizhinginsky District of Russia and the Buryat's state fell in 1926. In 1958, the name "Mongol" was removed from the name of the Buryat-Mongol Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic."

Not only is it morally correct to remind people that Mongolians are native to Buryatia, but that they speak Buryat dialect of Mongolian in Buryatia as well, just like how Mongolians speak a dialect of Mongolian in Inner Mongolia, China. It's our responsibility to make sure Mongolian ethnicities (whether they be Khalkha, Buryat, Dariganga, Chakhar, etc) are listed correctly in their corresponding native regions.

References

That’s true buryats and kalmyks are Mongolians. Aminafrommongolia56 (talk) 12:02, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2021

Ugurpin (talk) 17:52, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

"Monghol" is the first record. Mongh-Ul. Meaning Eternal Nation in Turkic. Benggü /Möngke/Munkh/Mongh means eternal. Ul-us means state Ul means nation in Turkic. Ul-us also has plural meaning of Ul.

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:42, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Are mongols central asian?

? 66.181.161.90 (talk) 03:35, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 15 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Akandrews.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC) == Chinese political agenda detected - "The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot];

I'd like to point out that the sentence "The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot];) are an North-Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia and Russia.

Portrait of Genepil

The main header photo for the Mongolian people's Wiki page claims to show the Queen consort Genepil in 1923. This however is likely not her, and there seems to be no known photograph of Genepil around. The photograph first appeared in a National Geographic magazine article published in 1921. The photo is titled "A Mongolian woman sits for her portrait before a Chinese photographer" by Luther Anderson. Here is a source describing it.

I'm happy to keep the photo as I think it's a very nice picture, but we should retitle it on the main page perhaps using the original title or some variant rather than misattributing her identity. However, as the article is semi-protected, I can't edit it, so I hope another Wikipedian comes along to rectify the issue! Regards, Andrew S. CosmologicalDefect (talk) 08:42, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

References

North Asian

edit east-Asian to North-Asian because Mongolians are neither east or central Asian. 66.181.182.111 (talk) 13:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Editing conflict.

@Juihui and Super Dromaeosaurus: please discuss here instead of in edit summaries. That way, you can both provide sources for your arguments. Thank you. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:58, 2 February 2023 (UTC)