Talk:Moonraker (novel)/Archive 1

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sections and old discussions to 16:10, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Moonraker Theme Song[edit]

I've corrected this in other Bond articles, but Hiphats just changed it, so I wanted to discuss it here to clear up any confusion. Shirley Bassey performed four Bond themes, not three:

  1. Goldfinger
  2. Diamonds are Forever
  3. Moonraker
  4. Octopussy (All Time High)

So, I'm going to revert it to my previous version. Please discuss here if you think my information is in error. —Frecklefoot 15:15, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)

While Shirley Bassey certainly has performed All Time High, and several more Bond themes for that matter, what's relevant here is who performed the themes in the movies. Sometimes a little fact-checking isn't a bad idea. Who is any of us to deny Rita Coolege her place in Bond history? -- Mic 20:08, Apr 5, 2004 (UTC)

Okay, I do find references to Rita Coolidge performing the song, the reference I own (the Bond themes CD) says that Bassey performed it. If it was in fact Coolidge, it should be changed. —Frecklefoot 20:46, Apr 5, 2004 (UTC)

Certainly, Rita Coolidge ought to have name spelled correctly, but primarily she should be credited. Instead of checkning which songs Bassey performed, why don't we start with the ones easily disproved? I hope you'd consider the IMDB authoritative enough: Octopussy Soundtrack.
I think it's good that you raised the issue on the talk page after reverting the article, but it could've been solved so much easier by a somewhat more extensive background check than putting all the trust to a single, and would it prove erroneous, source. -- Mic 21:14, Apr 5, 2004 (UTC)

I do trust the IMDb but I am not in the habit of looking up soundtrack information on it. From now on, I'll use it for that as well. Thanks for providing the information. I'll go ahead and change the entries.

BTW, I was surprised the information on the CD was incorrect. After all, the rest of the song information it has was correct. :-) —Frecklefoot 14:07, Apr 6, 2004 (UTC)

Novel plot point[edit]

It's been a while since I read it, but it seems to me that the female spy who helped Bond was from Scotland Yard, not the SIS. Can anyone verify, and correct before I check and do it myself? Dukeofomnium 16:51, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Special Branch, in fact. Definitely not SIS (which, as all know, is the external security agency - they were stretching a point letting Bond get involved to begin with). --Paul A 02:37, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Lairs[edit]

Drax had three lairs in the movie.

  • A chateau relocated from France to Brazil(?)
  • The spaceport in the Brazilian (?) jungle (with a Chac-Mool!)
  • The space base.
Thanks, Error. You can work that info into the article, if you like. Also, please sign your posts. This can be done by using 3 or 4 tildes (~~~) or (~~~~). The latter form is more popular as it also adds a time stamp. :-) Frecklefoot | Talk 15:14, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)


Jaws' girlfriend[edit]

Okay, so how can it be mentioned that Jaws ends up with a woman without saying 'girlfriend' (not that I can see how it's not NPOV in the first place, but la)? I think it's worth a mention. Hig Hertenfleurst 20:54, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Honestly, as far as the movie goes, I don't think it's pertinent information. However, with that being said I do believe it should be mentioned on the Jaws (James Bond) article since it's a more indepth article on the character. K1Bond007 23:07, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

Sounds fair. In that case, I think that by extension, most of the information about Jaws' character changes should be lumped in the article about him and a pointer there be put in the triv section. Rather like this, in fact.  ;-) Hig Hertenfleurst 01:33, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Octopussy[edit]

I reverted a sentence that implied Moonraker's cheating the cheater was somehow moved into "Octopussy". I don't really agree with this and in my edit summary I wrote down something completely different than probably what I should have. I don't know what I was thinking. Anyway. Does anyone else believe the same way about the Moonraker-Octopussy connection? K1Bond007 17:09, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)

Goldfinger also advises Bond to spend his winnings quickly following another "cheat the cheater" situation in both the film and book versions. It's possible the writers of Octopussy borrowed the theme from Moonraker, but they could have taken it from Goldfinger, too. 23skidoo 23:14, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

NPOV[edit]

"While the film is probably the most far fetched of any James Bond film, it is still also one of the most enjoyable James Bond films, being fast paced and funny."

Fast paced, okay. Funny and enjoyable, however, is not exactly what comes to my mind when I think of this movie. I do howver agree that the movie attempts to be funny.

Some people say that the first half of the movie is enjoyable...but that's not enough to make the statement in the entry a NPOV. :-)

--Klaws 15:24, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the origin of the statement, but it certainly doesn't belong here so I've removed it. I also removed the bit about the film being "accused" of capitalizing on Star Wars when later in the article and in other Bond articles it's stated that this was the intent all along which is why Moonraker was made and not For Your Eyes Only after Spy Who Loved Me Came Out. So it's incorrect to "accuse" anyone when facts are already in evidence and admitted to by the guilty party. 23skidoo 17:17, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Not Originally Planned?[edit]

If I remember correctly, at the end of the credits for The Spy Who Loved Me, it said "James Bond will return in For Your Eyes Only," NOT Moonraker. (This was when I saw it on HBO many years ago, it may have been changed for video. I was startled by it when I saw it.) This led me to believe that Moonraker was not originally planned to be the next film.

Anyone have the story behind this? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jafafa Hots (talk • contribs) .

It's believed (I don't know if they've ever acknowledged it, it is likely they have) that because Star Wars was so popular they decided to take Bond into Outer Space so they decided to adapt Fleming's Moonraker instead, which actually has nothing to do with space. Obviously it was successful though. Moonraker is the highest grossing of Moore's films. All releases of The Spy Who Loved Me say For Your Eyes Only to my knowledge even the latest DVDs. K1Bond007 06:25, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Is anything about this worth adding to the main page? My curiousity about it is what led me to this page initially. Jafafa Hots 00:04, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Sure. I'll try to add some later, but I'd like to find a book or something that has more information on this. The Legacy or the DVD would probably do great (unfortunately I have neither at this time). I don't want to just add this information. K1Bond007 00:57, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I believe The Bond Files also references this. 23skidoo 01:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

"Nobody Does It Better"[edit]

Under the Trivia section is this statement:

In another film reference, the song "Nobody Does it Better" - the theme from the previous Bond film - The Spy Who Loved Me, is also reprised on the soundtrack when Bond arrives at Drax's mansion in California.

Is this really true? The particular cue of Bond arriving at Drax's chateau is missing from the soundtrack (though features on Nick Raine's Bond Back In Action tribute) and it must be rather subtle as I also miss it in the film. When I do an internet search on this claim this page is the only result that is returned.—This unsigned comment was added by Ayrshire--77 (talkcontribs) .

Added by 23skidoo [1]. If it can't be confirmed then remove it until it can. My opinion anyway. K1Bond007 08:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I just played my DVD - it is clearly heard when Bond is being flown over Drax's estate. The cue may be missing from the soundtrack album because Hamlisch would have had to have been paid if it was. In any event, the cue is much more obvious than the supposed "You Only Live Twice" cue that people claim to hear at the end of Die Another Day (that one I dispute). 23skidoo 14:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Is it a fact though? No disrespect to yourself and I'm not questioning your statement above, but I've just never seen any solid reference that this is the case and it's never occurred to me when watching the film or listening to the piece on Bond Back In Action. If there was some evidence out there that Barry said it was sampled, say, then it's fact, but interpreting it from the DVD is personal conjecture.
I'm not out to prove anyone wrong or rubbish opinion, I'm just very wary that it's a piece of Trivia that can't be backed up. (PS, apologies for not signing the original comment) Ayrshire--77 19:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Most trivia comes from observations and knowing the subject matter. You won't always find a "concrete source" for these sorts of things. Otherwise IMO all trivia must be removed from articles (and that's not a "huffy" reaction -- there are Wikipedia editors who believe no articles should have trivia sections). The fact is, listen to "Nobody Does it Better" then go watch the movie "Moonraker" (don't rely on soundtrack albums which often do not reflect the actual music as played on screen -- evidence: the instrumental version of From Russia with Love which is heard in the movie but has never been included on any soundtrack album). Listen to the music played when the helicopter Bond is riding overflies Drax's California estate. If it isn't a sample of "Nobody Does it Better" than John Barry should be sued for plagarism. BTW if you're going to delete it, then IMO the YOLT theme reference in Die Another Day and the reference to the Goldfinger theme in OHMSS also need to be removed. 23skidoo 21:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Just watching the scene in Moonraker, I'm not so sure it is "Nobody Does It Better". Similar, kind of, but it isn't IMHO. No where near as obvious as the others you listed (sans the YOLT-DAD one, which I've never heard of before this). K1Bond007 00:04, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not going to delete it, or proposing to delete it, I just think it should be clarified that it's not solid fact but can be interpreted as so. Nor am I arguing that all trivia has to be cold hard fact, but I do think that where something can't be "proved", for want of a better word, the language used should subtly say so.
Having put in the DVD last night and dug out the cue on CD I'm with K1Bond above, I just can't hear it at all. The YOLT cue at the end of DAD is another tenuous one; the opening bars of Going Down Together are similar, but again whether it's hard fact is debatable (unlike the Dr No "Beeps", which Arnold states he clearly used in the cue when Bond escapes the frigate in Hong Kong). I think perhaps "reminiscent of" should be used, rather than "reprised", which is only a minor change that switches the emphasis away from the cue being a hard sample. --Ayrshire--77 07:06, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Well I'll remove it. I really don't think it is nor do I think we should say "reminiscent of". It either is or it isn't. "Reminiscent of" is POV unless Barry states that it is supposed to be or whatever, which he hasn't. K1Bond007 07:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Well just for the record I completely object to this. I don't know why I bother.23skidoo 14:33, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Find someone that agrees with you. I don't know what else to say here. K1Bond007 19:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Do not split the article[edit]

I oppose splitting the article into separate film and novel articles, as well as a needless separate article for the novel. It works fine as a cohesive whole. If the decision is made to split the novelisation off, it needs to be sent to the title James Bond and Moonraker as this is the correct title of the work. 23skidoo 12:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Each seperate piece of art needs a seperate article. See Revenge of the Sith ....(Complain)(Let us to it pell-mell) 00:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I oppose splitting the article as well. In its current form, it's easy to compare the book and movie versions. It would not be as easy to do so were the article split into two sections. --JKBrooks85 03:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Heh, there really isn't much to compare for this one frankly. Also a better article would just straight up tell you the differences instead of making you read 2 plot summaries; big deal, I know, but it should be mentioned with perhaps an emphasis and focus on why they chose to go a different route. K1Bond007 05:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

clubs[edit]

What is it on top of the clubs used by Drax' men in the space station?

wiltshire folk story[edit]

The reference to the colloquial name, moonrakers , for Wiltshire people is out of place here, as it isn't in the book, so I've moved it to a new page [[[User:Xyl 54|Xyl 54]] 15:03, 4 December 2006 (UTC)]

Hit and run comments[edit]

  • Overuse of non-free images. Why are three covers necessary?
  • References need formatting, using cite templates (or at least provide all the information that the templates would).

The JPStalk to me 14:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

GA fail[edit]

I am failing this article for the following reasons:

  • 1a) This article needs to be thoroughly copy edited - there are grammar errors and awkward sentences throughout. There is even an "etc." - the reader cannot be expected to fill in the details - they are reading the article to find out the details. :)
  • 2a and b) Not all significant details are cited (ex: the entire section on "Title changes" is uncited).
  • 3a) This page is dominated by plot summary and a discussion of the film. There is no real discussion of the novel itself - its themes or its style, for example. You might look at the some of the novels that have become FAs for guidance on how to write novel pages: Uncle Tom's Cabin, The Lord of the Rings, and The Well of Loneliness. Also, there is quite a bit of excellent literary criticism on Fleming and film criticism on the Bond films. You need to do some more research - that will provide you with the sources for the article and help you flesh out the discussion of the novel.
  • 6b) There may be too many non-free images (see previous comment by JPS above).

I look forward to seeing this article expanded and polished up. If you have any questions about this review, you can drop a line on my talk page. Awadewit | talk 21:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

This GA nomination was probably put a little to early. It needs work, but we'll try and make it like Live and Let Die (novel) (another JB novel). Thanks.  The Windler talk  08:04, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Move[edit]

I propose that this article be moved to Moonraker (novel) to make it consistent with the rest of the novels as well as to separate it further from the article about the film. Emperor001 (talk) 02:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

If no one responds soon, I will move this article. Emperor001 (talk) 20:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MoonRakerFirst.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 15:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Moonraker fleming.JPG[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MoonrakerComicStrip.jpg[edit]

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Image:MoonrakerComicStrip.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Moonrakerpenguin.jpg[edit]

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Image:Moonrakerpenguin.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 16:10, 8 March 2008 (UTC)