Talk:Oasia Hotel Downtown/Archive 1

notability

moved from article page to talkpage This building’s notability is established, in part, because it is the winner of the Best Tall Building in the World Award in 2018 by the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat, a major award recognizing the most important buildings in the world.

Completed change: Update for P*DA award

Based on instructions from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Request_edit

Information to be added under Awards section: The hotel was the recipient of the Design of the Year 2018 award conferred by The President*s Design Award (P*DA), Singapore’s highest honour for designers and designs across all disciplines. It recognises the achievements of an extraordinary group of people making a difference to the lives of Singaporeans and the global community through excellent design. According to the jury, "we commend the architects for making a bold statement by reinventing the typology of mixed-use towers in the city and creating a biophilic environment, where nature and urban development can coexist harmoniously."

Explanation of issue: Listing a previously unmentioned award for the building

References supporting change: https://pda.designsingapore.org/presidents-design-award/award-recipients/2018/oasia-hotel-downtown.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Edvarcl (talk • contribs) 02:20, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@Edvarcl: implemented the first part. The second part seems puffery/promotional to me. I would like to request of you that if possible, to create a Wikipedia page for The President*s Design Award (P*DA) since it is a national award. – robertsky (talk) 08:17, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

@Robertsky: thank you! Edvarcl (talk) 13:27, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Completed change: Proposed changes: Improvement in awards timeline

Information to be edited under Awards section:

In 2017, the building won a Green Good Design Award from the European Centre for Architecture Art Design and Urban Studies and the Chicago Athenaeum.

In the same year, it was named Building Of The Year by the Singapore Institute of Architects Architectural Design Awards, and won the Singapore Good Design Mark Platinum award, the highest accolade conferred by the Design Business Chamber Singapore for exceptional design.

In 2018, it was named the best tall building in the world by the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat. The Council also named it the Best Tall Building Asia and Australasia,

Explanation of issue: Improve clarity of award year/s

References supporting change: None. Citations already listed

References

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Edvarcl (talk • contribs) 02:20, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@Edvarcl: I have reworked the section, while including the President's award. It should be clear. – robertsky (talk) 08:18, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

@Robertsky: thank you! it is much better now. Edvarcl (talk) 11:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Completed change: Clarity in design copy

Information to be edited under design section:

Original: The intent of the design is for the fully-grown in building to look like a bouquet with a green stem

Suggested: The intent of the design is to mimic a bouquet with a green stem once the creepers on the building's facade are fully-grown

Explanation of issue: Improve readability.

• Y Done. --Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 09:40, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Resubmission: Requested change: Update for ULI award

Based on instructions from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Request_edit

Information to be added under Awards section: The hotel was the recipient of the Urban Land Institute's 2017-2018 Global Awards for Excellence. According to the judges, the hotel won for "its stunning red facade that is filled with greenery. The tower stands out among Singapore's concrete, steel, and glass buildings".

Explanation of issue: Listing a previously unmentioned award for the building

References supporting change: https://aasarchitecture.com/2017/11/oasia-hotel-downtown-woha-win-uli-global-awards-excellence.html/ https://www.businessinsider.com/oasia-hotel-downtown-singapore-wins-urban-land-institute-award-excellence-2017-11

Hi Edvarcl. This article already contains several accolades for Oasia and I'm concerned that adding more could be excessively promotional. Is there any strong reason for including this particular award in addition to the others? Best, Altamel (talk) 04:17, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

@Altamel: Thank you for your point. It makes complete sense if the awards are frivolous. In this case, I would venture the inclusion of this award is a fair representation of the notability of this hotel's design. It is also a factual statement with attributions. I would say non-inclusion might seem that other awards are worth more than the ULI recognition. Please let me know what you think. Edvarcl (talk) 06:43, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

@Altamel: Let me know please? Thank you. Edvarcl (talk) 04:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor: Is it possible to include this award? I feel non-inclusion of this award might represent this award is less worthy that the other listed awards. This should not be the case as this wiki entry is not in a position to judge the value of awards. Edvarcl (talk) 05:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

@Edvarcl: I added the award since I found that there is an article on Forbes indicating the prestigious level of this award. I am willing to add this on. As per Altamel, do note that anything more else will be treated as excessive promotional. Of course, trading one award out for another better award into the article will be fine. --Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 06:12, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor: That is good point regarding indicating the notability of the awards to be added. I will keep in mind. Thank you for your guidance! Edvarcl (talk) 07:52, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Request addition of new section

• Information to be added or removed: "The building appeared "in the background" of the third season of the television show Westworld."
• Explanation of issue: The building was featured in an episode of Westworld
• References supporting change: https://www.archpaper.com/2020/04/westworld-production-design https://geekculture.co/can-you-name-all-the-singapore-locations-in-the-westworld-season-3-trailer/ https://www.timeout.com/singapore/film/11-places-in-singapore-featured-in-westworld-season-3 https://cnalifestyle.channelnewsasia.com/trending/westworld-season-3-singapore-11706008

Edvarcl (talk) 09:25, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done. Declined per Altamel. JBchrch talk 17:29, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Request addition of new section

Altamel

I note your point on the importance of notability when it comes to Popular Culture sub-header. Thank you for the clarity ;p

Can I follow what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CapitaSpring did by using this line "The building appeared "in the background" of the third season of the television show Westworld." instead of identifying the appearance as a cultural event. Edvarcl (talk) 04:49, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

• Information to be added or removed: I have prepared the paragraph below for your perusal.
• Explanation of issue: The building was featured in an episode of Westworld
• References supporting change: https://www.archpaper.com/2020/04/westworld-production-design https://geekculture.co/can-you-name-all-the-singapore-locations-in-the-westworld-season-3-trailer/ https://www.timeout.com/singapore/film/11-places-in-singapore-featured-in-westworld-season-3 https://cnalifestyle.channelnewsasia.com/trending/westworld-season-3-singapore-11706008

In popular culture

In order to create a skyline with buildings that could be imagined as 3D printed , Oasia Hotel Downtown Singapore was one of the buildings scouted and appeared in season three of HBO’s Westworld_(season_3) alongside other notable Singaporean buildings such as Marina_One Residences and the National_Gallery_Singapore.

Besides local architecture, Singapore-based actor Bobby_Tonelli had a speaking role in the Westworld Singapore episodes. Edvarcl (talk) 05:54, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi Edvarcl, and thanks for your suggestion. Although there is room for disagreement, I do not believe Oasia Hotel's appearance in Westworld was significant enough to merit a mention in the article. Considering the frequency with which well-known buildings in large cities make passing appearances in television shows, if Wikipedia were to mention every appearance of, for example, the Chrysler Building, the article would be overwhelmed. That's why the Chrysler Building's article only mentions significant appearances and cites an article that is about only the Chrysler Building's building's cameos. Because I'm not seeing the same depth of coverage for Oasia, I am declining this request. Best, Altamel (talk) 03:21, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Altamel (talk)

I understand your point. I was inspired by how other Singaporean buildings such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CapitaSpring and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_One made the same Westworld reference in their Wikis.

Would it help if I reduce the verbiage for this section?

To your point on the Chrysler Building, New York is a popular location for US film/TV productions, so it is understandable the Chrysler Building has high cameo frequency.

Singapore, on the other hand, is rarely featured in US film/TV productions so it is notable when a Singaporean building has a cameo in a US film/TV production. The notability has been well articulated in the cited national and cultural media. Edvarcl (talk) 10:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Altamel (talk) Hi Altamel, please let me know. Thank you. Edvarcl (talk) 03:52, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi Edvarcl. Sorry for not responding to you sooner. I have given further consideration to your points, but I'm still not convinced. The issue that none of the four sources you provided give any deep coverage of the role Oasia Hotel played in Westworld, other than merely mentioning the hotel's appearance and the fact that it did appear.

Architect's Newspaper does not mention Oasia at all. GeekCulture only mentions that Oasia appears and that it "blends in" with the CGI-generated buildings. Timeout is limited to mentioning Oasia's appearance and that it has three swimming pools. CNA only mentions the fact that Oasia appeared. None of these sources tells me anything about when Oasia appeared in Westworld, the role it played in the plot, why the filmmakers chose to feature Oasia instead of another Singapore building, or if there was any special characteristic of Oasia that was important for the episode. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the hotel. But the difference between a well-written "In popular culture" section and a poorly-written one is being able to explain the impact a cameo had on pop culture, more than just listing appearances in the media. I just can't add this to the article if I can't explain to readers why Oasia's cameo was significant.

The other Wikipedia articles you mentioned probably shouldn't mention Westworld either. I will be reverting the mentions.

I'm sure that you want this article to have the highest quality possible. Have you thought about how a pop culture section could affect future quality? The problem is, in my experience, once a pop culture section is posted, it tends to attract fans to post more and more passing mentions, and the page becomes harder for Wikipedia editors to maintain. If you strongly disagree with my assessment, you could seek a third opinion or start a request for comment. I hope this explanation is useful for you. Best, Altamel (talk) 16:54, 25 March 2021 (UTC)