Talk:Palmanova

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Military history: Fortifications / European / Italian / Early Modern C‑class

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Fair use rationale for Image:Friuli-Venezia Giulia-Stemma.png

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:37, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Implied claim to originality of Palmanova star plan is misleading

In the article it is stated that the star fortress plan of Palmanova was "revolutionary" and "much imitated," leaving the reader with the impression that Palmanova, founded in 1593, was the first city with such a plan. However the town of Karlovac in Croatia, founded in 1579, was also based on the Renaissance ideal shape of a six-pointed star. This is mentioned in the English Wikipedia article on Karlovac, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlovac, although the star plan itself appears only on the Croatian page, http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlovac. Note that the town map there, on which this plan appears, is dated 1774, but this is only the date of the map. Karlovac was founded as a star in 1579, and as far as I know, no one claims it was the first of its kind either.

It is possible that Palmanova did serve as a model for later city-fortresses, however statements to that effect should be put in proper context. There is an association of star-cities to which both Palmanova and Karlovac belong, perhaps they should be consulted in a rewrite.

Nimdaz (talk) 08:17, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

section History and Giulio Savorgnan

Giulio Savorgnan was the superintendant of fotresses of the Venetian Republic and was charged with the design of the new fortress of Palma (to become the new Pama or Palmanova). The History section says that the "superintendant" founded a revolutionary new kind of settlement: Palmanova, but the name of Savorgnan is not mentioned. He has to be considered as the main designer architect and superintendant builder of Palmanova. He proposed an 11 pointed star shape, but for economic reason the approved bastions were only 9. His help was Marc'Antonio Martinengo di Villachiara who took care of the covert road, the glacis and the counterscarp.

Apparently Vincenzo Scamozzi (architect but not a military engineer) had nothing to do with the design of the citadel.

At the time of the founding of Palmanova in 1593 Giulio Savorgnan (born in 1510) was 83 years old and had gained experience in Crete and Cyprus. In the latter island he had built the new citadel of Nicosia as an 11 points star, between 1567 and 1570. So I agree that Palmanova was not revolutionary, nevertheless if was well known in Europe while Nicosia was conquered by the Turks in 1570 and lost until recent years.
Nicosia was most probably the first star fort of history, preceding Karlovac in Croatia (1579). Nowadays the old town of Nicosia is still enclosed in walls and has a star shape.

--Aga 20:03, 25 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aga Khan (IT) (talk • contribs)

Merge Palmanova Fortress.

The whole city appears to be the fortress so both articles are about the same thing. Merge what little that is new on the Palmanova Fortress article into this article. noq (talk) 14:10, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

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FortressPalma.jpg

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