Talk:Phantom (musical)

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Redirect[edit]

I redirected Phantom (1991 musical) to here because they were the same article (but this one was wikified) and then I did a lot of editing, changing and cleanup on this article. However, I left the cleanup tag because it could still use some work, especially with categorization and being more wikified. --Fotinakis(talk) 04:23, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

If you need help with a musicals article, leave a message at the talk page for WP:MUSICALS. Also, if you see an article about a musical that does not have the musicals project tag on it, please let me know and I will add it. That will alert other editors that there is an article that needs attention. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Removing that tag that I've once removed is because I don't think it is needed. Since Sakurano is debuted as top star (Grand Theater) is THAT musical production, why do I need a citation? Cougarwalk (talk) 04:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Facts need to be cited with reliable sources. Also read WP:V. It is vandalism to remove a fact tag from an assertion on Wikipedia unless you first add a citation. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Synopsis & Copyright Violation[edit]

The synopsis added on 2/17/08 is a direct cut-and-paste from [[1]]. According to the note on that site, the synopsis is from the liner notes on the CD. All of which means to me that it is a copyright violation; I reverted to the prior plot. (See WP:COPYVIO for reference and further reading.) JeanColumbia (talk) 23:48, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Good catch. Can you use the copyrighted text to help expand the current synopsis and break it up into acts? Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Phantom musical.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Copyright violation: synopsis[edit]

Again, the same copy vio has occurred as on 2/17/08, so I repeat: The synopsis added on 2/22/09 is a direct cut-and-paste from [[2]]. According to the note on that site, the synopsis is from the liner notes on the CD. All of which means to me that it is a copyright violation; I reverted, once again, to the prior plot. (See WP:COPYVIO for reference and further reading.) JeanColumbia (talk) 23:36, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I note that the same editor who added the copyvio also added the Hale Centre Theatre Production in 2009. I doubt that is notable, as it is a community theatre and thus falls under the general prohibition of including amateur productions per WP:WPMT guidelines. JeanColumbia (talk) 23:49, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Title deletion[edit]

The "American Musical Sensation" as part of the title needs to be removed. According to the official press release, libretto and reports, the real title is just "Phantom" not "Phantom American Musical Sensation". The American Musical Sensation is the advertising slogan for the show i think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.228.112.4 (talk) 18:23, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Can you give us a link to on official press release from the producers that clarifies this? The posters, the album, etc. always include the words "The American Musical Sensation". See: http://www.amazon.com/Phantom-American-Musical-Sensation-Studio/dp/B000003FGT -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:22, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I have not found any sources where Kopit or Yeston refer to the title as "Phantom: The American Musical Sensation". They have only called it Phantom. Here is an interview of Kopit saying the title is "Phantom" not "Phantom: The American Musical Sensation":

We changed the title to Phantom because we didn't want to seem opportunistic. Webber's show is a great spectacle. Ours is more about the characters.[3]

Also, I have seen several posters, playbill, and reports where they do not include the words "American Musical Sensation". Example, Candlelight Dinner Playhouse omitted the term American and called it "Yeston & Kopit's Phantom: Musical Sensation" or "Phantom: Musical Sensation" ([4]) Several other theaters used just "Phantom", examples such as Porchlight Theatre [5], North Carolina Theatre [6], Shire Music Theatre[7],Gateway Playhouse[8], Myers Dinner Theatre[9], New York Times review[10]

The original theater company, Theater Under the Stars reported the title was "Phantom of the Opera" but as Kopit and wikipedia's citation said, the play was renamed to "Phantom". TUTS has since kept the "Phantom" title.[11] The title of just "Phantom" is also consistent with the official libretto published by Samuel French, Inc in 1992. (see [12]) In it, the publisher noted that the billing and credit requirements title the play as only "Phantom"(see: [13])

All other informal variations of the title with the the addition of subtitles,slogans,etc came later. The RCA recording was later released in 1993 (with the cover "American Musical Sensation"). It seems to me the "American Musical Sensation" is the advertising slogan, as one review states [14] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.228.112.4 (talk) 18:52, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and made the change, although, frankly, I am not fully convinced. In the Kopit interview above, Kopit is saying that they changed the title from "Phantom of the Opera" to "Phantom" so as to avoid confusion with the Lloyd Webber musical, and he does not address the subtitle "The American Sensation". None of the other sources you give seem specifically to say that the official name does not include the subtitle. The fact that the subtitle was used on the album is a pretty powerful indication that it's part of the name. Still, it's not used in a lot of places, so I think it is fair to leave the subtitle off unless we see more evidence to the contrary. BTW, please see WP:WHY, which explains the benefits of establishing your own username. All the best, -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
In several interviews, Kopit and Yeston both confirm the title has been changed from Phantom of the Opera to Phantom. They never say it was changed from Phantom of the Opera to Phantom: The American Musical Sensation because the change was to Phantom (no subtitle), so you won't be able to find any sources where Kopit & Yeston say the title was Phantom: The American Musical Sensation. About their play, Kopit and Yeston have both described it as a "traditional American musical" or a "good old fashioned American musical" but they still named it Phantom. Most sources have the name under Phantom and make no mention of a subtitle. Professional critics in their reviews will clarify the one-named title Phantom by writing phrases like "simply called, Phantom" or "titled, Phantom" or "just Phantom". Theatre guide directories and encyclopedias (like the Cambridge Guide to American Theatre, Oxford Companion to American Theatre) also have the musical listed under the name Phantom. Phantom- without the subtitle- also appears on official press releases in theatres (http://www.wjfw.com/event.html?SKU=20100222184853, http://www.lacomedia.com/phantompress.pdf, http://chicago.broadwayworld.com/article/Stage_Door_Chicago_Phantom_20071020, http://www.thefulton.org/phantom/), programs (http://www.porchlighttheatre.com/phantom-program.pdf, http://www.pioneertheatre.org/press-room/season-archives/2001-2002-season/phantom/), as well as on tickets sold for the show. The article looks fine now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.30.43.183 (talk) 03:18, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

File:Phantom musical.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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