Talk:Poetry of Scotland

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Poetry of Scotland article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Poetry High‑importance

	Poetry portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poetry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of poetry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoetryWikipedia:WikiProject PoetryTemplate:WikiProject PoetryPoetry articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Scotland Low‑importance

	Scotland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scotland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Scotland and Scotland-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ScotlandWikipedia:WikiProject ScotlandTemplate:WikiProject ScotlandScotland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Celts Low‑importance

	Poetry of Scotland is within the scope of WikiProject Celts, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the ancient Celts and the modern day Celtic nations. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article or you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks or take part in the discussion. Please Join, Create, and Assess.CeltsWikipedia:WikiProject CeltsTemplate:WikiProject CeltsCelts articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

William Auld and the Skota Skolo

Shouldn't someone add a section, or at least make reference in the "20th Century" section, to Scotland's Esperanto poetry? Particularly to William Auld, who was nominated for the Nobel Prize for Literature on three occasions, which might well have resulted in him being the first ever Scot to win it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by R160K (talk • contribs) 03:58, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Copied from a usertalk discussion about this page:

Esperanto references in Scottish section

You have reverted my edit on the basis of unsound references; some were unsound (though there are others available), others I feel were ok. Rather than starting an edit war, I thought it would be best to try and resolve the issue here.

The members of the Skota Skolo (Scottish School) and its prestige is variously attested. Would the following source (as used on the Esperanto wikipedia page) satisfy: (Pierre Janton, Esperanto: lingvo, literaturo, movado, Universala Esperanto-Asocio, Roterdamo, 1988.) (it is an academic book by a French literary critic and linguist)

The second source given, the one to back up the existence and authorship of Kvaropo (foursome), was an ISBN number and a link to its entry on WorldCat – in what way is that unreliable? (any source on the Skota Skolo will almost certainly mention Kvaropo, so references with further information shouldn't be needed. Why can't a book serve as reliable evidence of its own existence?). Also, you yourself have added a mention to Auld's collection Spiro de l' pasio, which was only published IN the book Kvaropo as part of the Skota Skolo!

But furthermore, any mention of William Auld should also mention La infana raso, the work for which he is best known and for which he was nominated for the Nobel Prize for Literature. A source for the existence of La infana raso could surely be a reference to itself (as it is a published book with an ISBN) {incidentally, this source would also prove it has a foreward written by John Francis, something I didn't mention in the article but could be added}? A source for its prestige could be: (Verloren van Themaat, Willem A. "Esperanto literature and its reception outside the Esperanto movement." Babel 35, no. 1 (1989): 21-39.) (a journal article).

I appreciate that many of the sources I posted before were lazy, but there were better sources out there – I had hoped someone would simply update the sources rather than deleting them. I do hope you will feel my new sources are adequate and consent to them being used. – R160K (talk) 19:34, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Having double-checked the Telegraph reference, it also gives credence to claim the Auld's La infana raso was inspired by Pound's cantos. I will leave it unchanged for a day or two, but if I hear nothing back I will assume you have no objection to the new sources. - R160K (talk) 09:30, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Of the sources you posted last time: the Capital Scott seems to be just a private website and so not a reliable source; the second one is just an ISBN number, so not exactly up with Wikipedia's standards - it would be better to have some reliable secondary source that mentions this and would indicated its notability - I looked for one, but no luck; the telegraph article is fine for what is says about Auld, which includes La infana raso. I cannot find the Esperanto: lingvo, literaturo, movado book on the Espiranto page, so it would really help if you could provide links, assuming they differ from the ones I have just mentioned. I have no problem if you can find reliable sources to expand this section and I think it is a welcome addition to the article.--SabreBD (talk) 19:53, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Esperanto: lingvo, literaturo, movado is cited as a reference for a brief paragraph about the Skota Skolo on the article Esperantlingva literaturo on the Esperanto Wikipedia. If I find the time tomorrow, I'll expand the section with the new sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by R160K (talk • contribs) 22:50, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure what sources those are going to be. Please note that the reason that third party secondary sourced are required on Wikipedia is not just to indicate that something existed, but that it is also notable. Finding an Esperanto book in a catalogue is not sufficient because it does not indicate notablility. Sources on Esperanto websites or in Esperanto books saying how important Esperanto books are, are questionable sources. On the positive side the following source may also be a better one than the telegraph article for Auld's work: here. Also I just turned up this: here, which actually mentions members of the Scottish school and Kvaropo. I hope that helps.--SabreBD (talk) 08:15, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Those sources are great thanks. The second source you've given, Esperanto: Language, Literature, and Community by Pierre Janton is actually the same book as Esperanto: lingvo, literaturo, movado by Pierre Janton: they are both it seems translations of his originally French work L'Espéranto (the inside front cover of the English version incorrectly asserts the book was published in Esperanto as "Het Esperanto", which is in fact the Dutch version)– thank you for finding an English version.

In terms of what sources to use, I was thinking of the English version of Janton's book for the Scottish School and Kvaropo (the Esperanto version is used on that wikipedia as a reference for exactly the same information); the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography source that you have found for Auld (perhaps also including the Telegraph article so I can mention that WIilliam Auld's La infana raso was inspired by Ezra Pound's Cantos, though a newspaper article is not necessarily a sound source for a comment like that so might just leave that out.) Oh, and the journal article about the influence of Esperanto literature in the wider literary world to indicate the notability and reception of "La infana raso". – R160K (talk) 15:51, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I standardised this this to fit the article and made a few minor changes to fit the MOS and what the sources say. I think this looks really good now. Thanks for this useful addition.--SabreBD (talk) 17:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gaels

Not one image related to Gaelic poetry? Really? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.184.193.178 (talk) 13:40, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]