Talk:PogChamp

More sources/questionable standalone notability

Unsure if this should be a standalone article as basically the only information surrounding the subject are articles going over the recent removal of the emote, or articles pre-controversy that just go over the basic idea of what the emote is and how it's used in chat. I'd think this would probably be merged with the main article for Twitch alongside all the simp ban stuff. Anyways, here's some more sources that could be incorporated: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Waxworker (talk) 10:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I think if it was just either the removal or the usage, it wouldn't qualify for an article, but the sheer amount of coverage of this emote shows how it's notable. It's been a common aspect of internet culture for a while, though significant coverage in reliable sources usually trails that, it looks like it's caught up for once. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 11:30, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I think the article needs more background info, such as discussing the variants "pog" and "poggers", and noting major use of the term, such as the Twitch chess league named after the emote, or when politicians have used it. More sources that could be used: 1 2 3 4 Waxworker (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

A bit of expansion to the PogChamp article reveals a bit more notability to the PogChamp emote having an impact on the community's behavior on Twitch. More specifically is shown under the "Removal" section. Found some news sources. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 23:19, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Need a free variant of someone doing the PogChamp face

Because Wikipedia's policies state that the original subject of the PogChamp face, Ryan Gutierrez, is still alive, a photo of someone doing the PogChamp face is needed. If I got this right, the following should be done to make the PogChamp face:

1. Face the photograph's right-hand side
2. Open your mouth and move your lips forward, making a nice "o" mouth shape
3. Eyebrows move up
4. Feel joy simultaneously to get the proper expression of joy and/or excitement

Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 01:42, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 01:43, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

No, Qwertyxp2000, I don't think you got it right (not here at least; your comment in the edit summary at the file page made more sense). This article is not about the person, it's about an image. Only that image – the real deal – can represent itself. See WP:NFCI§9. We wouldn't fake a Picasso in an article about a Picasso or a famous phogotgraph in an article about that photo, either. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 01:49, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I see. But do you know anyone who is willing to do the PogChamp face? To be honest, I kind of look like the PogChamp guy myself, and I am attempting to make some PogChamp faces. And another note, is what I described basically how the PogChamp face is done? Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 01:54, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

You could maybe use a picture of him doing the expression facing forwards in the same clip, which is one of the most common variants of PogChamp, PogU. Also, note the original PogChamp emote is copyrighted by Twitch. ~ Ryan 05:43, 15 January 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by AntisocialRyan (talk • contribs)

It would sound like a good idea at first, but that would be taking a screenshot off Ryan's videos, which in effect is also copyrighted too. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 09:29, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Reliable source?

Link.

Is this InputMag article reliable? Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 23:52, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Misinformation?

The sentence containing the Verge's take on the removal is directly contradictory to what the article states, not sure whether it's better to remove it entirely or change it to reflect what the source actually says? The source does seem reliable, though it is partially an opinion piece. Also wondering if there are other sections that have falsehoods or misleading info (also I have never edited anything on wikipedia, this just really bothered me so idk what to do) LLaugust (talk) 01:53, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Hmm, you appear to have nailed a lot of those flaws of the recent edits. I am attempting to make the edits as true as possible, but I kind of feel I felt I leaned the WP:NPOV too issuous. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 02:07, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Analyzing that stuff about The Verge's take on the removal, lemme quote the current article's writing:

The Verge describes the removal of PogChamp to be detrimental to the popularity of Twitch, more specifically because doing so immediately lead to a significant increase to the toxic fanbase of Ryan Gutierrez and any of his associated representations

And comparing here with the stuff in the article:

“The other big part of this is that Twitch’s long-term goal as a company seems to be fully divorcing themselves from the reputation as an ESPN for gamers,” Broderick writes. “So the PogChamp debacle is basically perfect for Twitch — a small change that signals they’re no longer aligned with Gutierrez and everything within the specific toxic strain of the pro-gaming community he represents.”

Hmm... "As the writer (and, full disclosure, my friend) Ryan Broderick put it in his excellent newsletter Garbage Day". I wasn't quite sure how I would've worded the information such that it still means what the stuff there really means without using close paraphrasing or plagarismistic words. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 02:17, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

I mean, I would summarize something like:

The Verge describes the removal of PogChamp as part of Twitch's move towards becoming more mainstream by detaching themselves from toxic elements in the gaming community. The appearances of politicians like AOC and Ilhan Omar on the platform show Twitch's increasing popularity, with hundreds of thousands of viewers tuning into these politicians' streams.

I don't know though, while that is more in line with what the article says idk how much it adds to the picture here. LLaugust (talk) 02:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

The stance of how I feel that point was useful is that the impact of changing PogChamp had impacted Twitch. However, you're right that it does feel contradictory to what is underneath, with the bottom stating that PogChamp is mixed good and bad post-protest. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 04:06, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

I am not sure I am following you, since while they are trying to separate from more toxic elements of the gaming community, The Verge article doesn't state this as a loss or detriment. Instead it is framed as a strategic move to gain more popularity and become even more mainstream. LLaugust (talk) 04:16, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Feel free to change this article yourself. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 08:24, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

When I read that article, I was initially mislead in reading so. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 08:24, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Alrighty, here's my edits here. Got any comments about it? I think this is the right way of the interpretation of the sources I picked out? Also, that new citation is linked from that Verge article. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 08:55, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Actually, I juggled in a bit of information of yours and mine to combine the two to view both the points about gaming community specific stuff (my points that I shown; moved it out compared to the edit shown) and your summary about shifting to political publicness towards accepting not just gaming but also politics too, which happens so to link to why Twitch instantly but pre-emptively banned Trump after the Capitol incident even though Trump never actually used Twitch to endorse the Capitol incident. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 09:05, 14 January 2021 (UTC) Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 09:06, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Drawing the PogChamp face is suitable?

Is drawing a figure doing the PogChamp face considered free? As long as it's not sketching out Ryan Gutierrez or any currently alive people without their permission, then I think that should be fine. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 00:15, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Because after all, the PogChamp face itself is not copyrighted and therefore anyone can do the face. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 00:16, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Right Word?

I am not sure if "toxic" is the right word (when talking about the Verge's comments on it's removal). I believe that should be put in quotes or simply rephrased with a more widespread term, as "toxic" is a term that, while it is pretty easy to understand, is relatively confined to the gaming and Twitch community. Gargantuan Brain (talk) 01:03, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

@Gargantuan: What would be a more suitable widespread term for "toxic" in the context of gaming and Twitch community? Does that refer to "abusive behavior"? But how would I describe the "abusive behavior" in simple terms not restricted to gamer contexts? Sure, I hear all these conflictive battles among players for certain games whenever games are called "toxic", but how should I describe gamer term "toxic" better? Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 08:06, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

@Gargantuan Brain: Ooops wrong ping address. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 08:07, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Maybe just use a word such as "hateful" or "spiteful?" Maybe even rephrase the sentence with "angry usage of emotes?" I'm having a little bit of a problem thinking of a non-objective way to put this that everyone can understand. Gargantuan Brain (talk) 22:37, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

"Toxic" isn't really limited to aggressive use of emotes; it can apply to social conflicts in general. What context does the "toxic" term in that article state? If it's simply about "hateful", then "hateful" would be a suitable replacement. I'll just change to "hateful" just because I think it will do good. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 22:50, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

@Qwertyxp2000 Toxic isn't exactly tied to the gaming world but yes, I think "hateful" should help those who don't know the meaning of "toxic" in modern terms. Gargantuan Brain (talk) 20:52, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Poll Results

I'm sure not many sources will cover this, so I don't know how to cite the poll results. However, here is my screenshot I took that day of them. This Gaming Intel article reports the same numbers but I don't think this is a good source. ~ AntisocialRyan (talk) 02:54, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

File:PogChampening Vote Results.png

Where does the name 'PogChamp' come from?

As someone pretty unfamiliar with Twitch and the culture associated with it, it seems odd that this article doesn't explain why this emote is called 'PogChamp'. I would guess it was the name of the guy who originally posted it, but apparently not? So what does it mean? Robofish (talk) 23:29, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

If I could find a source that explains the expansion of the word "PogChamp" to mean "Player of Game Champion", then that would be helpful. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 03:06, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

It doesn't come from "play of the game", gootecks used to run a parody show about Pogs (the toy from the 80s). Not a reliable source but this video explains the history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.91.173.209 (talk) 05:42, 1 March 2021 (UTC)