Talk:PowerHouse Books

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Controversial

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

I'm putting a controversial tag on this page due to the cancellation of an event featuring Rabbi Andy Bachman on August 21, 2024. I'm going to contribute a section on the event written to wikipedia standards to the best of my ability. I know this is a hard topic. I invite other wikipedia editors to contribute in a thoughtful NPOV manner. 37and7 (talk) 15:29, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

This page has been repeatedly changed to state that the store manager canceled the event, when it has been reported and confirmed in multiple places that the book's publicist canceled the event.

https://forward.com/fast-forward/646443/powerhouse-bookstore-cancellation-zionism-andy-bachman-joshua-leifer/

The article has also been edited to remove reference to the reason for the cancelation, which was moderator Andy Bachman's history of inflammatory behavior while moderating events.

Requesting that the article be updated to correct this falsehood and accurately reflect this context.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/students/free-speech/2023/12/07/documentary-fuels-academic-freedom-debates

Dogwoodlane4494 (talk) 18:50, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I updated the Controversy section to include the account of events given by Daniel Power in the Forward and on the press release posted on the PowerArena website. 37and7 (talk) 19:08, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please post here if the publicist or a 3rd party sources confirms that the publicist was the one to cancel the event, not the store manager. 37and7 (talk) 19:09, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neither the staffer nor the publicist has spoken to the press, but Daniel Power has made contradictory claims about who cancelled the event. While in some articles like those currently linked in this entry he says it was the staffer, he replied to author Joshua Leifer with this statement:

"Joshua, Hannah (your publicist) called the store 15 min before the event to pull it; while our staffer claims she expressed concerns only about the moderator 2 hours before the event, initially the publicist offered some alternatives but canceled, not us. DM me." [1]https://x.com/danielpower/status/1826296265472168403

If this statement on Power's part and the perspective in the Forward are not sufficient to alter the account Power is now espousing, I'd suggest removing any mention of who canceled the event because it can't be confirmed either way. Dogwoodlane4494 (talk) 19:19, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple news sources are reporting audio of Hayes telling Leifer "We don’t want a Zionist on our stage." I've seen media sources repeating Power's version of Hayes' version of events, but I haven't seen any reliable 3rd party confirmation that the publicist was the one who cancelled. 37and7 (talk) 19:26, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not contesting that news sources have reported that audio, but it does not constitute evidence that Hayes canceled the event, it only constitutes evidence that those words were said. Meanwhile, the statement from Power himself that I shared above specifies who canceled the event, as does the account he gave to Forward (linked here: https://forward.com/fast-forward/646443/powerhouse-bookstore-cancellation-zionism-andy-bachman-joshua-leifer/) Dogwoodlane4494 (talk) 19:29, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The conspicuous ellipse in the quote, omitting context about what was said, is also a bit concerning given the contentiousness of the topic. Dogwoodlane4494 (talk) 19:33, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your attention to this. I have included Power's initial statement to The Forward about Hayes' account of the publicist cancelling the event, as well as Powerhouse's complete statement on X. 37and7 (talk) 01:20, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the amendment. It still doesn't seem accurate based on the available information. This edit still begins by saying Hayes canceled the event. The only evidence for that version of events comes from Power's quotes, and Power is also currently the only source for the version of events saying the publicist canceled—and he has said that more definitively. It seems that because one person has made both statements, the most reasonable course of action based on the evidence right now is not to attribute the cancelation to either Hayes or the publicist. Dogwoodlane4494 (talk) 01:26, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Leifer and Bachman also stated that Hayes was the one who canceled the event, and recorded her directing anti-semitic vitriol at them. That would seem to settle the matter. 37and7 (talk) 01:33, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The audio captures the staffer referring to Bachman as a Zionist, which Bachman has stated that he is. While saying they don't want to platform a Zionist is an anti-Zionist stance, it's not an antisemitic one, and many prominent Jewish organizations, scholars, and thinkers have cautioned against this conflation. Characterizing the recorded audio as "anti-semitic vitriol" also doesn't feel in line with Wikipedia's NPOV requirement, as it's based on the conflation of anti-Zionist and antisemitism, which is a specific, non-objective POV.

As I previously stated, the audio also does not reflect any information about who canceled the event. Power's statements in the Forward piece as well as on Twitter identify the publicist as the person who canceled the event.

It would be very helpful if you could share sources for Leifer and Bachman saying the staffer canceled the event. I have only seen statements from Leifer saying he felt as though the bookstore "effectively" canceled the event by raising concerns about using Bachman as the moderator, and now even those seem difficult to find. For example, the NYT article now only references the staffer reiterating "The young manager, who did not respond to my request for comment, remained polite but unwavering, insisting that Powerhouse had not canceled the event." There is no mention that the staffer canceled the event.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/21/nyregion/powerhouse-books-andy-bachman-event-cancelled-zionist.html Dogwoodlane4494 (talk) 01:46, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The full context of that quote is "The young manager, who did not respond to my request for comment, remained polite but unwavering, insisting that Powerhouse had not canceled the event — even as a sign on the door declared, “Sorry, due to unforeseen circumstances tonight’s event is canceled.”

Before instructing Mr. Leifer that it was time to leave, the manager reiterated the reason for the change: “The moderator that your publishing team sourced is a Zionist, and we don’t want a Zionist onstage,” 37and7 (talk) 01:51, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No part of that quote mentioning the sign indicates who canceled the event. The sign just says that the event was canceled, which it was.

The second paragraph that you've quoted I already addressed, so I'll just copy-and-paste that here: The audio captures the staffer referring to Bachman as a Zionist, which Bachman has stated that he is. While saying they don't want to platform a Zionist is an anti-Zionist stance, it's not an antisemitic one, and many prominent Jewish organizations, scholars, and thinkers have cautioned against this conflation. Characterizing the recorded audio as "anti-semitic vitriol" also doesn't feel in line with Wikipedia's NPOV requirement, as it's based on the conflation of anti-Zionist and antisemitism, which is a specific, non-objective POV.

As I previously stated, the audio also does not reflect any information about who canceled the event. Power's statements in the Forward piece as well as on Twitter identify the publicist as the person who canceled the event. Dogwoodlane4494 (talk) 02:07, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The audio records Hayes saying, "we don't want a zionist onstage," which is the ADL's definition of when Anti-Zionism becomes antisemitism. Multiple sources, including journalists, Powerhouse books and Leifer have stated that Hayes closed the event.

Since you have been selectively misquoting articles on this, I am going to leave this thread as answered and cease responding. 37and7 (talk) 02:34, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The ADL's definition of antisemitism is contested, not objective.

I'm not sure what you mean be "closed the event" but that is not the same as canceling the event, which multiple sources including Power and even Leifer say was done by Leifer's publicist. If you mean they closed the store, yes that would be the responsibility of an employee when the store was not hosting an event and outside of operating hours, as was the case in this situation.

You have yet to provide any sources that indicate the staffer canceled the event aside from Power's statements, which are contradicted by Power's other statements which I provided. As you have been selectively misquoting, ignoring objective evidence in favor of the narrative you're interested in promoting, and displaying bias, I'll be continuing to pursue a factual edit. Dogwoodlane4494 (talk) 02:40, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. MadGuy7023 (talk) 18:50, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The inaccurate coverage of this situation, which contradicts posts and quotes from Power and Leifer themselves, some of which are shared above, has made it impossible to include the truth in this article without having someone edit it back based on an inaccurate claim made by a publication that clearly has less of a commitment to fact-checking than I would previously have hoped (based on a clear agenda). This is just a shame. 52.119.88.3 (talk) 17:04, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]