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Source for future cleanup

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Excessive amounts of commas & "and"

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The article would benefit a lot from a cleanup of the never-far-apart usage of the word "band" (many times in one sentence), "and" and its staccato density of commas. One person only has the stamina for a certain amount of work. Arcsoda (talk) 20:51, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Go for it. Sergecross73 msg me 23:17, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2022 source

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Jenkins Valedictorian claim

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Inspiration for band name

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Tolerate the newbie question, please. Laurycial.timetraversing (talk) 16:24, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like Jenkins usually gives flimsy, different reasons in interviews, so I never bothered including it when I rewrote the article last year. Sergecross73 msg me 17:20, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Third Eye Blind band write-up.

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The band and its art deserves better than this piece. The factual detail is excellent but the paragraphs consistently stray off topic. Seems at times that an accurate timeline was the overriding objective. There must be a gifted copy editor out there...? 2601:184:200:6340:9D04:FD2B:C432:6139 (talk) 22:00, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

From the Wikipedia article:
[Wikipedia is] written and maintained by a community of volunteers through open collaboration and a wiki-based editing system.
In other words, this is built by people who are interested in spreading knowledge and/or passionate about a particular subject. It's not required to have a copy editor's touch to be insightful. So, if you notice something needs fixing, feel free to contribute anytime. Geeky Randy (talk) 23:20, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to take a stab at it yourself, or at the very least make more concrete, constructive suggestions. Sergecross73 msg me 23:44, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Adressing Jason Slater?

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Hi, I wanted to see/discuss if there was any diplomatic and unbiased way of addressing Jason Slater in this article. In a lot of interviews done with/by him he often badmouths Stephen Jenkins and has some interesting claims about his involvement with the group, although besides his oft-repeated accounts, no one else involved has said much. Regardless, some of his comments about the band would make some of this page chronologically incorrect. (i.e the Skywalker Ranch demo is copyrighted from 1995, as seen here, yet in the article we have placed it in the context of 1994 for some reason). I don't know how to go about it, and yes I did do a large Jason Slater edit some time ago which basically jumped the gun too quick, so I'll actually take it slow this time.

In short, as much as Slater was salty about the band, there is at least some value to some of the things he says, and Idk how to address them.

Sources to his claims can, and will be, provided if asked. Chchcheckit (talk) 11:19, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm okay with mentioning some more, but there are WP:UNDUE limits to how much we should be mentioning a member who basically left before the band got signed to a label and is hardly credited on any of their actual studio albums, and he's already got a number of mentions as it is. There's a 30 year history to cover, and he's related to only a few of them. We also can't be using Discogs as a source per WP:NOTRSMUSIC. Sergecross73 msg me 12:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I understand what you're saying. I think that the way things are stated on the page is that it was a voluntary rather than a acrimonious split when evidence does point to the uh latter? I'd probably be like "split due to creative differences" but that's as far as I would take it. Slater very much has a track record of taking credit for things he hasn't done (i could go on and on...), but again; criticism taken on board, WP:UNDUE indeed.
Jesus christ does Jason Slater have to lie about everything
Also just wanted to point out that one of the comments on the page about Tony Fridanelli being "too heavy metal for the band" is not cited correctly, was taken from the comments section of Jason Slater's video of Third Eye Blind's first recording session. Soooooooo uhhhhhhhhhh
Also, this source about slater's death which reflects his youtube comments, also says the first three years of 3eb. meaning 1996? questions are raised i guess Chchcheckit (talk) 00:10, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with adding more details/reasons about why Slater left. But it should be concise and constructive, not a rambling rant of his in an interview. Furthermore, some of your edits put far too much emphasis on Slater. You mentioned him in like the second sentence of the article, and labeled a section title for him, gave him a quotebox, etc. That's excessive for someone who was long gone by the time the band even released their first album. For example, Billboard (magazine) did a huge retrospective feature on their band's beginnings and first album in 2017, and not a single mention of Slater arises. Considering how much Jenkins, Cadogan, and Salarzar dislike each other, I find it extremely unlikely that its some sort of concentrated effort to cut him out of the history or something. He just wasn't that big of a part of the band's history when you look at the context of reliable source coverage, which is we go by when writing Wikipedia. There's room for adding more...but not a ton more. Sergecross73 msg me 17:27, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also, for the record, the Slater commentary on Fredianelli was from this People magazine article. Youtube comments sections generally aren't usable as a source, but they're fair game when republished by a reliable source like this. But you cite the RS (People) not the message post. Sergecross73 msg me 17:32, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fair game. I sorta figured that the way I approached it was wrong. And about the People article; alr. I was sort of figuring that It would read something along the lines of;
"Around the time frame of 1993 and 1994, Slater left the band due to creative differences,(reference would go here) while guitarist Kevin Cadogan and bassist Arion Salazar would join."
I mean, okay, let me try and point out what I think is notable, and (how to) address this constructively;
1. Slater's departure from Third Eye Blind was acrimonious, and for him, it was negative enough for him to write a song about Stephen Jenkins ("Somebody Hates You" by Snake River Conspiracy). Why?
2. While Jenkins never discusses the split at length, Slater does in SRC interviews (and interviews point this out), and several other Third Eye Blind news articles from publications that reached out to him.
3. Slater alleges [here] that Jenkins did not record songs that meant giving credit to other musicians. "Jason Slater, the original bassist in Third Eye Blind, said Mr. Jenkins often declined to record a good song of Mr. Cadogan's because it meant giving him credit. Stephan's been doing that same thing to everybody forever, Mr. Slater said. He doesn't want to lose the facade of him being the musical genius, so he surrounds himself with people who are talented to pump himself up." In that People article, Slater's comments about "Alright Caroline" and "Hold Me Down" are mentioned (i.e "We recorded Caroline and a song called Hold Me Down at this session.") , but his claims from the YouTube comments (yes I am taking your notes on board) claim he contributed to "Hold Me Down" and it was not included on the debut album because it would have meant giving him credit. (on some unrelated note, the deluxe edition of the debut album that has "Alright Caroline" and "Hold Me Down" include thanks to Slater...) Now obviously, his comments are defamatory, but we can at least condense into something less so; that I don't know what.
I guess we could say he felt underrepresented in the band and quit, or some other nice ways of doing so; minus the polemic ranting. Chchcheckit (talk) 13:53, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm good with a brief, WP:STICKTOSOURCE mention on why Slater left.
  • Anything Slater says about anything beyond himself, should definitely be framed as "According to Slater, (Slater's stance content)" because much of what he says seems largely appears to be his own personal opinion on things given in interviews.
  • Slater writing a song about hating Jenkins is probably more of a factoid for Slater or SRC's article than here, as it really didn't have any impact on Third Eye Blind itself.
  • It's well-documented that Jenkin's struggles with writing credits with his collaborators. But most of that is covered in sections later on, with both Cadogan and Frediannelli, due to the respective court cases. Even your quote from Slater appears to be referring to writing credit issues between "Jenkins and Cadogan", not "Jenkins and Slater". You'd need a source directly noting it being related to Slater too before that could be added.
  • It's not really central to any of your points, but for the record, "Hold Me Down" has never been released in any official capacity. Only "Alright Caroline" was included in the 20th anniversary re-release of their debut album. Sergecross73 msg me 17:30, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2024 source

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