Talk:Robert Plomin

Parking a reference

A useful article on the effectiveness of Grammar schools- https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/mar/23/selective-schools-make-no-difference-to-gcse-results-study-says.--ClemRutter (talk) 15:35, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Jewish?

Does anyone here know if he is Jewish? Futurist110 (talk) 18:37, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

@Futurist110: you're welcome to email professor Plomin and ask him if it's published in a book or secondary source. He responds to emails. I searched his book Blueprint on Google for 'Jewish' and found no results, so I doubt it. I think he tends to steer clear of discussing ethnicity though. Sxologist (talk) 02:56, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

MIT Technology Review

https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/04/02/144169/dna-tests-for-iq-are-coming-but-it-might-not-be-smart-to-take-one/ Charles Juvon (talk) 04:39, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Robert Plomin.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:53, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

discredited mainstream science?

it still seems the mainstream science supports group differences and the selected sources that call it into question aren't representative of the mainstream 76.84.186.230 (talk) 07:40, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

You will need reliable sources to include that in the article. They must explicitly refer to Plomin, otherwise it is WP:SYNTH. --Hob Gadling (talk) 09:08, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

The selected sources already in the article don't mention Plomin and aren't representative of the mainstream Saleve78 (talk) 05:37, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

No they don't mention Plomin, but they are required by the WP:FRINGE guideline and they are certainly representative of mainstream science. We've been over this a million times, and there is a strong consensus on the matter. Wherever we mention a FRINGE theory (in this case the idea that there is a genetically determined difference in average intelligence between racial groups) we are required to make clear that it is a FRINGE theory. Generalrelative (talk) 06:34, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

No sources attest to Plomin's endorsement of the view that group differences in intelligence are of genetic origin. If you look at the statement that was published, this is what the WSJ letter *actually said* on the subject: "There is no definitive answer as to why bell curves differ across racial-ethnic groups. The reasons for these IQ differences between groups may be markedly different from the reasons for why individuals differ among themselves within any particular group". This statement does not accord with the view attributed to Herrnstein and Murray. To the contrary, Plomin's subsequent statements make it clear that he rejects some of the conclusions stated in The Bell Curve. Accordingly, I have rewritten the paragraph to remove this long-standing WP:SYNTH. Nangaf (talk) 02:03, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

That's a bit of a stretch. And while you clearly have good intentions to correct what you see as a misconception, the revised wording you suggested looked to me like WP:WEASEL wording. The WSJ letter is far from a statement of the current mainstream consensus on race and intelligence, and that needs to be made clear wherever that subject comes up, per WP:FRINGE. Pending a consensus on how to word this paragraph, I've removed it entirely. Generalrelative (talk) 14:30, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

OK, I can see how someone might construe Plomin's later comments as giving himself a pass. Thanks for removing the paragraph pending consensus. I think that is probably best, if consensus is going to be difficult to achieve, and there is the additional question of whether the issue is WP:DUE in Plomin's biography. The WSJ letter gets plenty of discussion elsewhere in Wikipedia. Nangaf (talk) 17:53, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Glad we could come to an accord here, at least pending other editors weighing in. Race and intelligence is an especially contentious topic, so it's always nice when things like this can be resolved amicably. Best wishes, Generalrelative (talk) 18:21, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps start a new section for the discussion? For what it's worth, my personal view is that Plomin was strongly influenced by J.C.Loehlin and held similar views on Jensen -- i.e. that he was a psychometrician of good repute, but that his analyses of the origins of group differences were unreliable. Loehlin, being a psychometrician himself, met the controversy head on. Plomin had no interest in the question at all. All of his research concerned individual differences and he had scant interest in group differences of any kind. Nangaf (talk) 01:28, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Only one secondary source briefly mentions Plomin's views on this, the NY Times, which quotes Plomin's book: "There are powerful methods for studying the genetic and environmental origins of individual differences, but not for studying the causes of average differences between groups". I don't think Plomin is particularly interested in this topic nor is it one he strongly endorses. From Blueprint p 206: Heritability is about differences between individuals, not average differences between groups... This principle also applies to more politically sensitive differences between groups... or between ethnic groups. The causes of average differences are not necessarily related to the causes of individual differences. Zenomonoz (talk) 00:33, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I do think these quotes accurately reflect Plomin's views over the entire period since "The Bell Curve", even if they were only expressed in 2018. Despite frequent media appearances during this period, to my knowledge he avoided making any public comments on the topic. The orientation of his research interests, however, has been consistent. FWIW I do not agree with his opinion that tools do not exist to study the origins of group differences, and think David Reich's view more nuanced. Reich's own innovations in this area had been known for more than a decade by the time "Blueprint" was published, and I do not believe that Plomin was unaware of them: he chose to downplay these developments rather than confront their implications. Nangaf (talk) 22:41, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Source for middle name

Do we have a source for Plomin's middle name? Nangaf (talk) 01:44, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Never mind, I found one. Dr. Robert Plomin, Psychology's Outstanding Alumnus Nangaf (talk) 01:55, 16 February 2024 (UTC)