Talk:Rockaway State Beach

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Misleading name

Despite what the Pacific Land Trust map implies, I believe this beach is not part of the state system. For instance, it is not listed at the [Parks and Rec official website. Would there be any objection to merging or deleting this stub in favor of Rockaway Beach, California? - Stepheng3 (talk) 19:40, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any reason to believe that the statewide website purports to be comprehensive? I am guessing that it is not intended to be comprehensive. I would tend to give more credibility to the PLT source than the State website, as the Pacifica Land Trust people are specifically focusing on that specific location and have a high degree of credibility on land use issues especially as to the jurisdictional status of parkland and open space in that vicinity. SaltyBoatr (talk) 19:53, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am guessing that an organization created to promote protection of local habitats might occasionally be overenthusiastic or even biased. I haven't found another credible source (not derived from Wikipedia) that supports this name. - Stepheng3 (talk) 20:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of guessing. Is there any indication, other than your guess, that the State website is a comprehensive listing? Is there any indication, other than your guess, that the Pacifica Land Trust lacks credibility? Googling it[1][2][3], the PLT seems to be heavyweight and credible. SaltyBoatr (talk) 20:24, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After some further research, I've come to suspect that Rockaway Beach is simply one section of Pacifica State Beach. According to the state site, PSB is operated by the City of Pacifica. I've called the Parks, Beaches, and Recreation department of the City of Pacifica at 650-738-7381. Someone there is looking into the question for me. - Stepheng3 (talk) 20:28, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see that the book Bay Area Ridge Trail [4] mentions the exact three word term "Rockaway State Beach" on page 242[5]. Unfortunately not viewable on Google books, so a trip to the library is needed. I know from driving by, that this beach has "park like" improvements and is maintained as if it was a state park. It might be interesting to ask the Pacifica Land Trust people what their sourcing was. This is drifting into "original research". The key issue I think is not truth, but verifiability. And the question is whether the Pacifica Land Trust is a WP:RS. Your hunch is no. My hunch is yes. WP:3O? A trip to the library to check out that book? SaltyBoatr (talk) 20:38, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, from driving by, I can say that the Pacifica State Beach is located in a different location than the beach subject of this article, which is about a half a mile distance away. SaltyBoatr (talk) 20:46, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for my negative speculations on the reliability of the PLT. I'm sure they care about these issues more than I do.

State park properties don't have to be contiguous. Up here in Sonoma we have many separate beaches that all are part of the Sonoma Coast State Park. If Rockaway is part of Pacifica State Beach, that would explain why it is maintained like a state park.

I think the most reliable source (for the name) would be the organization that's officially in charge for the property. However, if there's significant doubt/confusion/dispute (about the name), I'd want the encyclopedia reflect that too. - Stepheng3 (talk) 20:57, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My call to the City of Pacifica didn't get me an unambiguous answer regarding the name. I browsed the Pacifica State Beach 1990 General Plan and found lots of interesting info about that facility, but no mention of any parcels north of The Headlands. Perhaps you, being local, could check out the signage and brochures (if any) at Rockaway next time you're in the area. If the official brochure, or the official sign at the facility entrance, says "Rockaway State Beach" that would satisfy me.

Either way, I think there would be some benefit in merging this article with Rockaway Beach, California since they're clearly talking about the same beach. I'll add tags to that effect. - Stepheng3 (talk) 00:58, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rockaway Beach, is the name of a neighborhood. In this neighborhood, there is a northerly beach which is not Rockaway State Beach. Just south of that beach is Rockaway State Beach. At high tide these are two different beaches, separated by the rip rap filled commercial land adjacent to the 200 block of San Marlo Way. I don't think it is accurate at all to say "clearly talking about the same beach". Further, this is getting into the realm of WP:Original Research. The bottom line here is that per WP:RS, Rockaway Beach is a neighborhood, and Rockaway State Beach is a state beach. SaltyBoatr (talk) 02:51, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just got back from the Library checking the Rushmore book which includes a map on page 242 which clearly shows the beach in question labeled "Rockaway State Beach", the limits of this beach are indicated and are south of the Rockaway beacb neighborhood. I have shown two solid reliable sources that identify the existence of a "Rockaway State Beach". SaltyBoatr (talk) 02:51, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

neighborhood is a neighborhood, beach is a beach, just like rockaway creek is a waterway and rockaway street is a road. neighborhoods and beachs are not consolidated anywhere else even if they have similar names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hemanetwork (talk • contribs) 21:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]