Talk:Royal Badge of Wales

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A fact from Royal Badge of Wales appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 20 September 2005. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the modern Arms of the Principality of Wales are based on those borne by the 13th century Welsh prince Llywelyn the Great?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2005/September.

Wikipedia

Images

I just wanted to say a few words about the unorthodox image placement / framing.

I wanted to drop the caption from the arms because they're such a small image and long captions on small images often look ugly. Just look at the edit history.
I felt justified in doing so because it is the "page image"; its caption would be the same as the name of the page.
And I used "frame" rather than "thumb" because the image is already quite tiny and "thumb" wasn't doing anything to shrink it.
Then I put it, unorthodoxically, on the left because it seemed too small to be the "page image" way over there on the right.

If the image were larger, it would solve some problems but cause others: the article wouldn't be long enough to comfortably accept both a large Welsh arms & the POW's standard. Doops | talk 19:28, 16 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As a matter of interest

I've just accidentally stumbled upon this use of the arms to represent Wales in a national (non-royal) way: Image:Homerule.jpg. Doops | talk 04:57, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Fox-Davies mistaken?

In York Minster (or possibly somewhere else; I saw it in 1989) there's a memorial to Prince Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence (son of the then prince of Wales) which has the Royal Arms with an inescutcheon of about seven quarters, which appear to represent the various dignities of the heir-apparent; I recognized Wales, Cornwall, Chester and Carrick, and guess that Scotland with a label checky stands for Rothesay. But I've never seen anything similar elsewhere. —Tamfang 22:17, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Crown

The crown/coronet should not be considered to be part of the arms themselves - you could legitimately put a crown on top of the English and Scottish arms (as was done on the old shilling pieces) as well. Andrew Yong 20:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Depends if the crown is included in the blazon included in the letters patent granting the badge.82.132.212.11 (talk) 03:35, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

New Welsh Royal Arms

There is also a Royal Arms of Wales now, based on the old Welsh princes shield. It appears on all new Welsh laws. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.221.164 (talk) 15:32,

19 July 2008 (UTC)

It's a Royal Badge, not Royal Arms.82.132.212.11 (talk) 03:30, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Welsh heraldry

I have included Welsh Successor States' coats of arms in Welsh heraldry which I think is a far better place for it. It doesn't directly relate to the Royal Badge of Wales to any great extent and I think the Welsh heraldry page should be simply linked to to allow the user to access more detailed information. The other sections on the predecessor etc. are fine because they do relate. I think it was simply convenient because the Welsh heraldry page was only a very short stub, and Id like to correct that now. I alter this page suitably in about a week unless there are any opposing views? Jarry1250 (talk) 18:36, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a good move. This page has developed into a discussion of two rather different subjects: the coats of arms of the Welsh kingdoms pre-conquest, and the royal badges representing Wales since Henry VII. Welsh heraldry is a better title for an article discussing the former. Ham 11:55, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Principality of Wales

The article neglects to mention that the arms of Llywelyn the Great were also the original arms of the Principality of Wales, the fact that Llywelyn ap Gruffudd was the Prince of Wales and not just a prince of Gwynedd, and that because of this the arms became the official arms of the Principality. Llywelyn was recognised as Prince of the Principality of Wales in the Treaty of Montgomery in 1267. He is still officially recognised as being the first Prince of the Principality of Wales. All subsequent holders of the title have been "English" princes of Wales, but in terms of the title and the institution and its coat of arms, no line was drawn between Llywelyn and his English successors. The only dispute surrounds Owain Glyndŵr's acquisition of the title; that is to say, Owain Glyndŵr is not officially recognised as Prince of (the Principality) Wales - that title officially belonged to the future Henry V at the time of Owain's "reign" - whereas Llywelyn ap Gruffudd is and always has been officially recognised as the first to hold that title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanddef (talk • contribs) 14:37, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

2008 vs. 1953 badge

Can the 2008 badge in any sense be said to have superseded the 1953 badge?Thorbecke2012 (talk) 07:25, 11 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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This article needs rewrite

The royal badge of (or for) Wales should refer to several badges that were used to represent Wales in royal heraldry throughout history. The monarch, apart from the royal arms, also possess many heraldic badges. Representing lineages and his/her realms. Symbols of Wales were never included into the royal arms itself, but several symbols did make it as royal badges. The history, description, evolution and usage of each should be given.

In 1801 the red dragon badge was given official recognition by George III.
In 1901 the red dragon with a label of three points badge was given to the Prince of Wales as an official badge by Edward VII.
In 1911 the arms of Llywelyn was made part of the Prince of Wales coat of arms by Edward VII.
In 1953 the red dragon badge was given an augmentation of honour, used by Wales Office, inspired Welsh flag.
In 2008 the arms of Llywelyn was augmented and became a new badge in its own right, used by National Assembly of Wales, appeared in Welsh seal.

Other royal badges associated with Wales such as the Prince of Wales' feathers and the leek should also be mentioned briefly. --Sodacan (talk) 05:26, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Reorganised the article a bit, so that it has some kind of chronology. Will be adding more text to it later. --Sodacan (talk) 17:24, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]