Talk:Ruritania

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Untitled[edit]

One more series in Ruritania theme: [1] - see particularly "Heart of Oskar Prinz", "Henry in High Politics" and this chapter [2]

In the end chapter of Oskar Prinz, a reconstruction of Ruritanian monarchs is as follows:

1436: marriage between Duchess Osra and count Rudolf of Elphberg from Swabia

The kings and queens of Ruritania

House of Elphberg

Rudolf I (1644-1665) formerly Duke Rudolf VI

Rudolf II (1665-1707) son

Henry the Lion (1707-1739) son

Rudolf III (1739-1781) son - his wife "Margaret of Tuscany" presumably was a non-existen daughter of this guy: [3]

Ferdinand (1781-1814) son

Henry II (1814-1822) brother

Rudolf IV (1822-1854) son

Rudolf V (1854-1862) son

Flavia (1862-1880) cousin

House of Thuringia


I think we should distinguish between the hard facts, legitimate deductions and purely imaginary additions in this list.

The hard facts are the following rulers; Henry the Lion (unnumbered, probably the first) elderly at the beginning of Heart of Princess Osra and dead in later stories. Rudolf III (prince at the beginning of Heart and during the adventure in England that produced the Rassendyl line, recorded in Prisoner of Zenda) Already King (as a young man, probably with a long reign before him) in later chapters of Heart. Two unnamed sons of Rudolf III and his wife Margaret of Tuscany, babies in later chapters of Heart. Probably the elder of these boys qas the next king. Rudolf III has one brother Henry, married to Countess Hilda during Heart, and one sister Princess Osra,married to the unnamed Grand Duke of Mittesheim in Heart. Unnamed King, father of Rudolf V (by a first royal marriage) and Duke Michael of Strelsau (by a second morganatic marriage), mentioned (generally with respect)as recently dead at the beginning of Prisoner. Rudolf V (inherited the throne at the beginning of Prisoner. Dead by the end of Rupert of Hentzau after a brief reign). Flavia cousin and consort of Rudolf V, reigned alone after his death, apparently until at least the date of publication of Rupert.

The legitimate deductions are the existence of Rudolf I and Rudolf II as kings of Ruritania (probably of the Elphberg line) prior to Henry the Lion and the existence of Rudolf IV between the reigns Rudolf III and Rudolf V. The amount of time (roughly 140 years) between the accession of Rudolf III and Rudolf V requires there must have been at least one and probably at least two kings of Ruritania not named Rudolf in the period between Rudolf III and Rudolf V. There must also have been a junior Elphberg line that resulted in Flavia, a cousin of Rudolf V (but not too close a cousin, since she was marriageable to Rudolf V under Catholic canon law, unless we assume a dispensation). It is possible that she was descended from Prince Henry's marriage to Hilda, but she might have been descended from an unknown junior Elphberg of the period between the reigns of Rudolf III and Rudolf V. It is possible she was descended from the younger of the two unnnamed sons of Rudolf III.

All the remaining named rulers in the list above are, as far as I know, purely imaginary (though Ferdinand's name derives from the name of a ruler of Tuscany who might have been father of Rudolf III's wife Margaret). 12.169.121.2 (talk) 21:41, 8 August 2016 (UTC)



Leopold (1880-1884) cousin

William Henry (1884-1909) brother

Albert (1909-1917) son

"Rothenia"[edit]

from that genre:

When king Rudolf VI, the English prince, had ascended, his "only cousin" Eleanor was confirmed as heiress presumptive, Princess Eleanor of Ruritania. The uncle, Lord Robert Rassendyll, was invested as Count of Hentzau. Henq 12:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


Henry the Lion (1707-1739) son, had son Rudolf III and daughter Osra.

Rudolf III (1739-1781) and his wife Margaret of Tuscany, had sons Ferdinand I, Henry II.

Ferdinand (1781-1814) had daughters.

Henry II (1814-1822) had sons Rudolf IV and another, father of Flavia. A daughter married to Thuringia.

Rudolf IV (1822-1854) had son Rudolf V (1854-1862)

Flavia (1862-1880)


House of Thuringia:

Leopold (1880-1884) cousin, (grand)son of Henry II's daughter

William Henry (1884-1909) brother

Albert (1909-1917) son, born c 1860

daughter, married to Savoy, where not exactly matching generation... Victor Emmanuel, Prince of Naples, was born in 1920's; Umberto II was born just before end of 19th c. and anyway married Marie Jose of Belgium.


---

grandmother Kesarstein, born c 1930

earl and his brother lord Robert

Rudolf VI

cousin, princess Eleanor of Ruritania, to be married with Francis VI, Prince of Terlenehem

---

Osra's male cousin's son was contender in 1430's, castle of Furstenberh

his elder daughter married Kesarstein

confiscated Furstenberh was given to the Terlenehem loyal family

Mesembria[edit]

Duchy of Mesembria was given by Vulgarian tsar to his kinswoman and kinsman in 1920's, Ioannes I, Duke of Mesembria, (1862-1929), and his wife Sophia (1875-1957).

  • Theodoros I of Mesembria (1900-67) married Elisabeth (1904-55)
  • Ioannes II of Mesembria (born 1935) married Henriatta (born 1938)
  • Ignatios of Mesembria (born 1966) married Robinia (born 1976)
  • thus far: daughter Floriana of Mesembria (born 2005)

Ignatios' younger brother Theorodos (born 1969)

sister is married, has sons 2002 and 2004, daughter 2000

Ioannes II's sister Eleni (born 1937) now widowed, grandsons Nicolas 2005, Alexis 1991 etc

Ruritania and Military Uniforms[edit]

I suggest additional text might describe the over-elaborate military uniforms of the world. This possibly comes from PG Wodehouse's descriptions of the Hotel Commissionairesas ex-Kings or ex-Grand Admirals.

There is a whole male peacockery space for the gold braid, epaulettes, funny hats and bemedalled but unheroic chests of the world's display or parade uniforms. The kind of gear worn by the British Royal Family on parade occasions is very Ruritanian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seantmchugh (talkcontribs) 11:42, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Ruritania and Military Uniforms[edit]

I suggest additional text might describe the over-elaborate military uniforms of the world. This possibly comes from PG Wodehouse's descriptions of the Hotel Commissionaires as ex-Kings or ex-Grand Admirals.

There is a whole male peacockery space for the gold braid, epaulettes, funny hats and bemedalled but unheroic chests of the world's display or parade uniforms. The kind of gear worn by the British Royal Family on parade occasions is very Ruritanian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seantmchugh (talkcontribs) 11:43, 29 March 2009 (UTC)


An Inaccuracy?[edit]

Is this accurate? "In The Heart of Princess Osra, set in the eighteenth century, Hope refers to a palace 'burned down by the people in 1848."

The eighteenth century was from 1701 to 1800. Why would a book set then refer to something that happened in 1848?

208.181.25.30 (talk) 19:45, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

The passage goes, "Therefore the Prince came to Strelsau with a great retinue, and was lodged in the White Palace, which stood on the outskirts of the city, where the public gardens now are (for the Palace itself was sacked and burnt by the people in the rising of 1848)", i.e. the story is told to an audience much later than the story happened, and other things have happened since.

I wanted to cite this with "The Heart of Princess Osra, page 226. Frederick A. Stokes Company Publishers, 1896. [4]" but wasn't sure about the code... would I just enclose that in ref tags, after the quotation (just now replaced in the article except i forgot to log in. :( )?

Goosedaemon (talk) 13:56, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Satire?[edit]

I remember hearing somewhere that Ruritana was meant as a satire of the instabitily of the Balkans of the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.237.126 (talk) 16:59, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Liechtenstein[edit]

Is there a rationale for why this country is linked in the "See also" section? That article never mentions Ruritania and this one gives no connection between itself and Liechtenstein. If there is no objection, I'll remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.26.90.240 (talk) 19:35, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

ruritania in lierature[edit]

Re Ruritania. Did I miss the citation of Evelyn Waugh's early novel, Vile Bodies? In Vile Bodies the ex-King of Ruritania appears as a social parasite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.234.107.235 (talk) 02:24, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Awien (talk) 02:56, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

An April Fool[edit]

In its April 1967 edition the Railway Magazine published a spoof page of photographs purporting to show the railways of Ruritania. In fact the locations of the photographs were in Britain, as could be deduced from thinly disguised names in the captions. AllanC41 (talk) 22:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I think it is the April 1967 edition of 'Railway World', not the 'Railway Magazine'.

86.2.150.197 (talk) 10:16, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, it is definitely the April 1967 edition of 'Railway World', I have the magazine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redorc01 (talkcontribs) 17:11, 14 February 2014 (UTC) --Redorc01 (talk) 17:23, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Liner Ruritania, a Holmesian homage[edit]

That fictional ship is mentioned in A.C. Doyle's The Adventure of the Illustrious Client. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.85.148.202 (talk) 10:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I've added this information as it seems at least as noteworthy as Evelyn Waugh or PG Wodehouse's mentions of Ruritania.

--Redorc01 (talk) 17:22, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Pale Fire?[edit]

Odd....of all the books mentioned that were influenced by this book, no word of the most celebrated of them all: Nabokov's "Pale Fire." NaySay (talk) 21:27, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Geography?[edit]

The article says that Strelsau is 'between Dresden and Prague'. There is however no mention I can find of Prague in any of Hope's books. Certainly, there are mentions of Dresden. But no real indication of which direction(s) Rassendyll travels after leaving there.

If he travelled towars Prague from Dresden, crossed the border somewhere near the modern German/Czech border on the Dresden-Prague railway line, travelled 10 miles to Zenda, then travelled another 50 miles to Strelsau in the same direction, he would have travelled about 60 miles (about 96km), after crossing the border. That would put Strelsau in the same position as Prague, not on the way. On the other hand, if Rassendyll crossed the border and the turned perpendicular to the border and travelled 50 miles, that would put Strelsau either near Carlsbad, or Liberec.

86.2.150.197 (talk) 22:34, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Hawke, Spurling, Haythorne[edit]

Only one of these is mentione before discussing how they relate to the geography of the novel. Citations to the others need to be given.

--Redorc01 (talk) 17:30, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I see these references were editted out in Spetember 2013. Unfortunately the following paragraph is pretty meaningless without them.

The reference to the Ruritanian Crown Jewels in the game 'Contraband' has also been removed. Any particular reason? They were notable as being the only things in the game that didn't actually exist.

--Redorc01 (talk) 18:00, 14 February 2014 (UTC)