Talk:Salem, Ohio

Is Salem Politically separate from Perry Township?

I emailed one of the Columbiana County Commissioners. I doubt they're going to check it what with the Holiday but I'm fairly Certain that once a Village reaches City Status They tend to sever their ties to the township . mostly to stop having to share property taxes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Captainkang (talk • contribs) 17:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC).Captainkang 17:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

As I understood it, Salem is a city. Perry Township is a township, and not under the jurisdiction of the city of Salem. See City on the link indicated. It may be the case that much of Salem's "population" lives in Perry Township, but they are not city residents. Likewise, Perry Township students may attend Salem City Schools, but they still live in Perry Township, not the City of Salem. To be a city, as the definition goes, Salem cannot be part of a "township," it stands alone. Salem is bordered by several townships listed here, and is IN Columbiana County, but it is nonetheless separate from Perry Township politically. The entry should be changed accordingly.

County Lines and Other Confusions

The ever-controversial and popular Wal-Mart that keeps popping up as a reference point in this article is located in Mahoning County. (There's a sign that reads "leaving Columbiana County, entering Mahoning County" a few feet from the store's parking lot.) This is interesting, and confusing, as Salem is located in Columbiana County, and the author (who has no Wiki account name and does not identify him- or herself) insists that this area is part of Salem. Could the author (or someone else who has a Wiki account) please explain this to me?

Further, the Ordinance cited as reference to the aforementioned edit only provides that the City of Salem will provide SERVICES (fire, snow removal, water) to the 82.24 acres annexed from Salem Township. This does not mean that those acres became part of the City, and does not address the Green Township issue. The previous edit (now restored) about Green Township and census purposes should be restored. It had nothing to do with Wal-Mart, as far as the citation is concerned, and should remain as-is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.247.246.109 (talk) 15:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

I keep re-editing the article because as a resident of Salem, I know that the city annexed that particular land from the township so that it could offer Wal-Mart all the services it needed to open a store there (this edit is not informed by my political views with regard to Wal-Mart). The city welcomed Wal-Mart with open arms, even giving them a tax abatement, I believe. However, because the Salem News and the Morning Journal -- the local papers in the area -- refuse to keep any material longer than seven days in their archive, it's nearly impossible to get any online information about it more substantial than the ordinance already referenced.

The store is actually on the south side of State Route 14. You're right -- as the road curves to the left in front of Wal-Mart, the road enters into Mahoning County and Green Township (where Home Depot is situated). However, Wal-Mart, and most of its parking lot sits just south of the county line (which actually runs straight through the Dunkin' Donuts in front of Wal-Mart). If you need to check the boundary, go to the Columbiana County Courthouse, or download Google Earth, which has a "county line" feature.

The city also annexed territory from Green Township in Mahoning County to entice Home Depot (again, it would be easier for Home Depot to secure a cozy tax abatement and certain services if they built in the city limits instead of in a township).

All of this is why I contest the assertion that the annexation of township land into the city limits of Salem was for "census purposes." The city doesn't care to have more people; instead, they did want more jobs. To keep Wal-Mart and Home Depot interested in those sites, they needed to provide them the services they needed (which would best be provided by annexing the land into the city).Salemquaker 01:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

You live in Salem, so you must be familiar with the microfiche, microfilm, and other archival records available for all local newspapers at the Salem Public Library. I welcome your references from sources other than the internet. I do not have physical access to these records, but I think the article would benefit greatly from them. Have you considered asking Dick Wooten or any of the other Salem historians about their documentation on the subject?

Moreover, the facts from the City of Salem webpage must be correctly interpreted. The site does not indicate that "a vast majority" of the city is in Perry Township, and I believe that most of the city is actually not in that region. If you can find a real citation that proves your point, it is welcome, but the citations listed do not do so. The "census purposes" information comes directly from the United States Census Bureau. That reference directly refers to Census department actions. While there may have been other land transactions in the same year in that area, the statement about census purposes is accurate, and should not be removed in favor of Wal-Mart-related text. The Wal-Mart construction was probably part of something else, but the census information comes from the Bureau itself.

I know current residents of Salem, lifetime residents of Salem, and was --until fairly recently-- myself a resident of Salem. I don't recall anyone welcoming the store with "open arms," but I can see your position quite clearly.

It might be helpful if you included images from these maps you cite in support of the assertions listed above. It could certainly add an air of dynamism to the page!

You might want to check your facts on why people choose tax abatements. Thankfully, that is not a part of the main article at the present moment, and it is best left out due to a clear personal opinion your comments reveal.

Finally, do we need to include the Wal-Mart store in the opening paragraph about the city? Salem is a lot more than (a relatively new) Wal-Mart, and this seems like information that could be included in another section, perhaps one on "retail offerings" or "new development" or "changes to the city." --After all, there is no section on history, the town's place in industrial fabrication, or its famous residents. Seems like the information on a couple of "big-box" stores could go in another location than the opening statements.

BFDhD 21:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The issue doesn't seem to be WHY they annexed into Green Township. but DID they annex into Green township. Even if no one lives in the territory; if it was in Mahoning county the,n the city is Bi- CountyCaptainkang 17:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Salem has voting citizens in Green Township, Mahoning County. In the 2007 Primary votes were cast by one citizen for Mayor, Auditor, 3rd Ward Council, and Law Director among others. (That one person chose not to cast a vote in the General Election)Therefore, how can it even be argued where the city lies? Please refer to the election results: http://www.mahoningcountyoh.gov/DepartmentsAgencies/Departments/BoardofElections/PastElectionResults/2007PrimaryElection/tabid/865/Default.aspx TravisS1227 (talk) 22:00, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Who votes in what municipal elections?

Text was added: "they do vote in municipal elections." To whom and to what does this refer? No citation was given, so it is even more difficult to decipher the meaning and importance of adding this text. Green Township residents do vote, but not for Mayor of Salem and other city officials . . . . Green Township is a big place, and the text about its residents might not even be relevant for an article on Salem, Ohio, n'est pas?--BFDhD 16:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Green Twp. residents in Salem DO vote on all issues including mayor, see link above to see a vote cast for mayor by a Green Twp. resident. TravisS1227 (talk) 22:01, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

This article has way too much information about everything BUT the city of Salem, Ohio

The Information on Green and Perry Townships seems irrelevant. while it's nice they have a trustee system the only thing that seems to pertain to Salem, Ohio is that the City at some point annexed land from unincorporated areas of those townships. If I read the annexation information correctly then salem's borders now are past Columbiana county and extend into Mahoning County. why is this such an issue? if the borders extend past the county line then it's in two counties. maybe a revision is in order.Captainkang 19:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

You must forgive me for being direct, but you did not read the annexation information correctly, which may not be truly your fault, as the listed links on this page pertain to incontextual slices of information and do not include any records from the County or State offices, let alone any citations from any of the local media (Salem News, Morning Journal, East Liverpool Review or any local television reports). Salem city is still a separate entity, and its residents are the ones who are governed by the city's Mayor, represented by its city council, and pay its residential income taxes. I agree that the Green and Perry and Salem Township information should not be in this article, but it nonetheless does verify - from the State Auditor's office, no less - that the suppositions that Salem is bi-county (it is not) and all of the other presumptions about Perry, Salem, and Green Township residents being subject to Salem city's governances and tax provisions (they are not) were all incorrect. The fact remains: Salem is a city, and the surrounding lands might have some waste and fire protections, but they are not part of the city. The city itself is squarely within the boundaries of Columbiana county, and that is the issue at hand in this article's so-called controversy. The City of Salem is not in Mahoning County, and Mahoning County does not claim that the city of Salem is part of its jurisdiction. That much can be verified by reviewing the Mahoning County government web site . . . or even city-data.com. This article, however, remains about Salem city, its boundaries, its demographics, its governance, and its history, and the city is not "bi-county." In a funny way, you're absolutely right - this article does have "way too much information about everything BUT the city of Salem, Ohio" - because the boundaries of the city of Salem itself do not include portions of those three townships, something overwhelmingly verified by the three documents from the State Auditor's office.

I'm curious -- if municipal election results list tallies IN Green Township and Salem Township, and if those residents really are voting in a Salem municipal election, how are they not officially residents of Salem? I'm really just asking out of my own curiosity, because I know I've read several articles in local media covering these elections that list vote counts (even if there are just two or three votes) from these townships. It would lead me to believe that the city's boundaries are spilling into Green Township. Right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.71.104.156 (talk) 17:32, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

From what I can tell Cities and Villages in Ohio are considered part of the township they are incorporated from. so In some cases if you live in a township you could vote for certain Municipal issues despite being outside the city.Captainkang (talk) 18:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

What is the history of Salem ?

I don't see how Salem was formed ,who formed it,and who the founders are ? Whomever wrote this did not do a very good job. I just would like to know the history of the city. I can care less about walmart,annexing,what a township offers (and Green township's services are operated by Beloit Village,under green twn. trustees). Maybe someone should get a hold of a city office or an historyen to get this updated. (besides I have a road atlise 2007,that shows Salem Mkharahuc 11:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)as having 19,670 resdunts.

History section added. (By the way, please remember to keep your comments civil (no insults, please!) in the future.)--BFDhD 19:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Problems with "Geography" section dealing with annexations

There were several problems in the section labeled "Geography". Firstly, some of the citations used referred to dead links. Which brings me to the second problem: I removed these, because I have no reason to trust that these citations bolster the inaccurate claims held forth by the editor(s). The claim that annexation was done "for census purposes" is not credible without convincing sources; an auditor's report (even if available, which this wasn't) would not generally indicate this. Moreover, the implication that residents of the annexed parts of Green and Salem townships are somehow not residents of the City of Salem is in direct contravention of Ohio law. I highly doubt that the Ohio State Auditor would make the claim that annexation means something other than what is prescribed in the Ohio Revised Code. -- JeffBillman (talk) 02:26, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Mahoning County

As shocking as it was to learn for this Salem native, part of Salem actually is now in Mahoning County-- the southwestern corner of Green Township, to be exact. Salem annexed this land for development surrounding the new Walmart Supercenter, as explained in a February 24 2004 broadcast of WKBN's "27 First News at 11". (See index) This is also visible on the map cited as a source. -- JeffBillman (talk) 14:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

People, please stop changing this... how many more maps and Mahoning County election records have to be posted before it sinks in that there are LAND and PEOPLE that set in Salem, Ohio, Mahoning County! Salem's city page is about 10 years out of date, do not use that to gauge anything.

Being born and raised I know Salem people are thick headed and resistant to embrace any change, but good lord... we've put the proof out there and people keep screwing it up. TravisS1227 (talk) 20:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I reverted the latest edit on two grounds. One, sourced info demonstrating that Salem has annexed parts of Green Township was removed, and replaced with an imprecise and undated source. The second ground, however, was more pertinent to the reversion: At the 2000 (US) Census, 12,197 people lived in the city of Salem... not 26,973 as claimed in edit. If another source indicates that 26,973 people live(d) in Salem, that's fine; we'll evaluate that source on its own merits. But we can't state that the 2000 Census substantiates that claim, because it's simply not true. -- JeffBillman (talk) 16:55, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

As long as there's a good, valid reference, then all is well! Thank you, JeffBillman, for your good citations . . . they make all the difference in the world. Hopefully this will be put to rest. (This is hard to reference, but --for the record-- Nancy Milliken's (Columbiana County Auditor) office states that Wal-mart is in Columbiana County and Salem, but the shopping center that includes the Quizno's is in Mahoning County; that half of the Wal-mart gas station is in Mahoning County and the other half is in Columbiana County (though both are considered to be part of Salem city), and that the Home Depot and adjacent plaza are something else entirely. So, the gerrymandered new portions of the city (in both counties) appear to be largely commercial zones.) Let's keep up the POSITIVE ATTITUDE on this page and stop with the name calling and thinly-veiled insults, thank you! Cheers!--BFDhD (talk) 21:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Good work tracking that down, BFDhD! It makes sense, too, given how State Route 14 curves slightly to the left as it leaves Perry Township. Now, last time I was on that side of Salem, they were still building Home Depot. Therefore I don't remember if Home Depot was on the north or south side of SR 14. I think it was on the north, which would place it entirely in Mahoning County. Even so, we're talking about just a few acres in Mahoning County, which certainly gives the appearance of gerrymandering. So just to satisfy my curiosity, does that now make three municipalities that are in both Mahoning and Columbiana counties? (i.e. Salem, Columbiana, and Washingtonville)