Jump to content

Talk:Sargent station

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Talk:Sargent Station)

Absence of Native American presence in History section

[edit]

I am wondering why the article does not mention the Native American presence of this site prior to it becoming a "station", especially since one of the citations used in the article is specifically about the Amah Mutsun (Ohlone). What is the reason why this important aspect of history was excluded, especially since such a high-quality reliable source that is used in the article exists?

To my way of thinking it would be valuable (and essential) for our readership to understand the the Spanish, Mexican, and Indigenous people's history in addition to the Anglo history. Netherzone (talk) 00:55, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are right. I'll add an edit request to add the presence of the Amah Mutsun (Ohlone). I felt at the time, it might not be as relevant as the history of the station. Thanks! Greg Henderson (talk) 01:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Greg, thanks for your response re: long term Indigenous inhabitants of this place. Please also consider adding content about the later Spanish and Mexican presence. To my mind, the fuller, comprehensive historical information that WP presents of place-based topics is key to understanding history - in our country and around the world. Netherzone (talk) 01:22, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Netherzone, the edit request has been created to include a section called the Indigenous, Spanish, and Mexican presence. Thanks again for your comments. Greg Henderson (talk) 01:55, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request - Add Amah Mutsun tribe

[edit]
  • Under the History section, please add a new section Indigenous, Spanish, and Mexican presence before the Passenger service section.
  • Under the Indigenous, Spanish, and Mexican presence section, add the following paragraph:

References

  1. ^ a b Hart, Richard E. (2019). "Federal Recognition Of Native American Tribes: The Case Of California's Amah Mustsun" (PDF). www.protectjuristac.org. pp. 66–67. Retrieved 2024-05-21.
  2. ^ "Local Landscape Descriptions" (PDF). San Francisco Estuary Institute. pp. 199–200. Retrieved 2024-05-16.
  3. ^ Hoffman, Ogden (1862). Reports of Land Cases Determined in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California. San Francisco: Numa Hubert. Retrieved 2024-05-31.

Greg Henderson (talk) 01:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Greghenderson2006, I fulfilled the edit request, which I copy and pasted from your request above. Two issues remain. It introduced (for some reason) a citation error for the Hart ref with the notification, "Cite error: The named reference "Hart" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page)."
Could you please investigate what the problem might be and if two Hart refs should be created (Hart1 and Hart2)? If there needs to be two Hart refs, please add a new edit request below and I'll make that change.
I also want to note that I copy edited the request to place the history content in more chronological order. Please see what I did so that you understand my rationale...first Indigenous, then Spanish colonialists, military officers and missionaries, then Anglo settlers. This will give the readership a chronological understanding of the history, who came first and why it was a significant site. Let me know if you understand how this improved the article, and if not I'll explain further. Netherzone (talk) 03:23, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the edit request used the same citations that are in the article. Just use the [1] not the full URL. For the sentence: "In 1856 James Pattee Sargent (1823–1890), a rancher and assemblyman, bought Rancho Juristac with his brothers, where he established his residence, later known as Sargent Ranch." just use [1] as it is already define in the next paragraph. Greg Henderson (talk) 03:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, what do you think about have a sub-section Indigenous, Spanish, and Mexican presence before the Passenger service section? Greg Henderson (talk) 03:38, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to fix the citation error, but it seems that you have two citations with different ref-names, "Hart" and Hart"/ - which of these is correct? When I tried to change the "Hart"/ ref in the edit request to "Hart", it created an inline error message. Please review the history and preview each itteration. You will see that there is either an error in the References section, or an inline error. This should be fixed before moving on to anything else. I do not have a lot of time to spend with this, so am asking you to be the troubleshooter. Netherzone (talk) 04:02, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there are two reference to "Hart" (see below)
In 1856 James Pattee Sargent (1823–1890), a rancher and assemblyman, bought Rancho Juristac with his brothers, where he established his residence, later known as Sargent Ranch."[1]
A year later, the line was acquired by Southern Pacific Railroad.[1]
They are both the same citation/URL. The 1st came from your paste.
The simple solution is to change the 1st citation to {<"ref name="Hart"/">}

References

  1. ^ a b c d Hart, Richard E. (2019). "Federal Recognition Of Native American Tribes: The Case Of California's Amah Mustsun" (PDF). www.protectjuristac.org. pp. 66–67. Retrieved 2024-05-21. Cite error: The named reference "Hart" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).

Greg Henderson (talk) 05:52, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done I got it to work, but I had to remove the second set of " quotation marks - see history to understand why.

Regarding the section headings you suggest, I don't think any subsections are necessary in the section, it's all history. Netherzone (talk) 13:42, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request - Fix when?

[edit]

  • Under History section an editor has placed the tag "when?" in the setence: "Today[when?] most of the over 500 members of the Amah Mutsun band are descendants of the native people who were later baptized at Mission San Juan Bautista."
  • Please remove the word "Today". The sentence should read"
    • "The Amah Mutsun band has over 500 members. The majority are descendants of the native people who were later baptized at Mission San Juan Bautista between November 1794 and May 1795."[1]

References

  1. ^ For events of 1795–1796, Milliken, Randall. A Time of Little Choice: The Disintegration of Tribal Culture in the San Francisco Bay Area 1769–1910. Menlo Park, California: Ballena Press Publication. ISBN 0-87919-132-5 (alk. paper) 1995:129–134 ("Mass Migration in Winter of 1794–95"). For runaways, Milliken, 1995:97 (cites Fages, 1971).

Greg Henderson (talk) 06:07, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Greghenderson2006, That is not an accurate estimation any longer. If a source from 1995 says "over 500" then that is precisely what should be said, because WP goes by what reliable sources say. Readers may think/assume that this is a current population estimate. It is now 2024, 29 years later than 1995 – that is a full generation – one would think the population numbers have changed. Their current population in the area could be as high as thousands or as low as zero. Accurate statistics will give readers a better understanding of how the development impacted the Indigenous culture and people. Either search for a current source for the Amah Mutsun Ohlone – in that specific area – or be specific as to when the "over 500" estimate was taken by Milliken by reading his paper. (You may have to go through the citations in his paper if he is actually citing a source that is earlier than 1995.) --- Or you can search for a current citation for the population of the Amah Mutsun band of Ohlone and add a new citation that isn't ~30 years old for the actual numbers in the area.
Is that explanation clear to you as to why it's important for an encyclopedia article to be specific and accurate? Netherzone (talk) 14:03, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Netherzone, thank you for your comments. Since this is a difficult population number to source, we can either remove the sentence or say: The descendants of the Mutsun, who were placed under Mission San Juan Bautista during Spanish rule, are now seeking federal recognition as a legitimate tribe.[1] Greg Henderson (talk) 16:05, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I found this, let me know if there's anything useful. [1] There may also be something of interest in the main Ohlone article. Netherzone (talk) 03:18, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this is a good article under history; "Today the Amah Mutsun Tribe is an active community of nearly 600 members, each of whom can trace their individual descent directly to a Mission San Juan Bautista Indian and/or a Mission Santa Cruz Indian." Greg Henderson (talk) 03:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference Hart was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

Edit Request - Add hyperlink

[edit]

Greg Henderson (talk) 14:31, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done The target page already has no orphan tag, added the link here though. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 02:41, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Section on Decline and legacy not backed up by source

[edit]

The section on Decline & legacy is not backed up by the source. Article creator, see my note on your talk page. Netherzone (talk) 01:58, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sargent_station&oldid=1228764231"