Talk:Saskia Lettmaier

Needing more references and information

While researching, I found several studies that cite and discuss Lettmaier's views on certain topics but I'm not finding much biographical material. Could use some help in that department. ^{Atsme📞📧} 01:52, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Given that we are dealing with a case of uncertain notability, I think that, before expending much effort on biography, we have the most immediate need for more independent, third party, sources that discuss the significance of her scholarship. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:26, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Do you think more sources would be available in German? Not sure if a simple Google search would bring them up. Another thought - would it be better to simply create an article about her book which appears to be the catalyst for her notability. I have seen multiple independent sources (in English) that quote her views and cite the book. Her h & g index numbers are low, probably because of the topic. Oxford University Press published a short bio about her to accompany the book. She has other publications but they haven't gotten the same attention as Broken Engagements. ^{Atsme📞📧} 02:56, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure what to say. (By the way, I became aware of this page via your talkpage.) I'm stuck at being skeptical that this bio page does not satisfy WP:PROF, and I've held off going to WP:AfD because I want to give plenty of time for other editors to bring forth more sources (something that I'm unlikely to do myself, given my relative lack of interest in legal scholarship). And I'm afraid that the links you just provided here make me increasingly skeptical: the independent source that you link to as citing her only deals with her work in a footnote, and the other two links make it clear that she is a junior academic (also, the publisher of her book is not an independent source). At this point, I'm leaning towards thinking that this will go to AfD, and I'm the wrong person to ask about how notable or not the book would be. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:59, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I've asked Notecardforfree to give it a look since they are most familiar with legal articles. I doubt we can expect much input until after the Holidays so if you're not in a hurry, I'd prefer to wait a bit longer to see what a legal expert has to say. ^{Atsme📞📧} 21:29, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

No hurry at all. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:00, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

• Comment: Atsme and Tryptofish, I took a look at available English language sources to assess Professor Lettmaier's notability. I think this is a close call, but I also think that there is a fair argument that she passes WP:PROF's first criterion. Like you, I had trouble finding independent coverage that provided biographical information about Professor Lettmaier, though there may be German sources that I'm missing. However, she does seem to be regarded as a well-respected academic authority on the subject of the legal and sociological dimensions of marriage in 19th and 20th century England, and therefore she may pass under WP:PROF's first criterion. For two more examples of the impact of Professor Lettmaier's work, see these recent citations in Martha Nussbaum's 2013 book Subversion and Sympathy and this influential law review article by Anat Rosenberg (at pp. 377-378); see also the citation provided by Atsme above. Of course, I think it's also important to consider that systematic biases in popular media and academic scholarship may diminish the quantity and quality of coverage of individuals like Professor Lettmaier (i.e. foreign female professors who write about gender studies), and I think it's important to consider those factors as well. Additionally, I have no doubt that her book, Broken Engagements: The Action for Breach of Promise of Marriage and the Feminine Ideal, 1800–1940, passes the notability criteria listed at WP:BOOKCRIT and would be worthy of a standalone article. See, e.g., this review in Victorian Studies and this review in The Journal of Legal History. Feel free to contact me if I can be of assistance. All the best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 23:22, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm keeping an open mind. From what you say, this may be more a case of passing WP:GNG than passing WP:PROF. I look forward to seeing whether this page can be improved. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:29, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability#Does the GNG apply to academics? that is worth looking at in this regard, particularly with respect to whether or not it would be better to have a page about the book instead of a biography page. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:25, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

• FYI: I added a paragraph to this article that describes Ms. Lettmaier's contributions to her field of scholarship. After reviewing available sources, I think that there is sufficient discussion about her work in independent sources to pass WP:GNG's threshold. Please let me know if any of the new material is unclear and I will try to clarify. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 19:47, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on this. It's really not my subject area, but I think this looks like a respectable page now, so I'm no longer concerned about notability (but can't promise that others would agree, of course). I'm going to take it off my watchlist now, and wish everyone good luck. Ping me if you need me for something. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:30, 10 January 2017 (UTC)