Talk:Satsuma Rebellion

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Removed from article,[edit]

section The Rebellion:

(This section needs to be reviewed for accuracy in numbers such as the government's 300,000 soldiers. Mikiso Hane's book "Modern Japan: A Historical Survey" gives the number of governmental soldiers at around 60,000+. These are two drastically different amounts and it needs looking into. ALSO, the Battle of Shiroyama page states that the government pardoned Saigo TWELVE years after his death.)

Tom Harrison (talk) 17:54, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

It would seem the article has been reverted with no more citation than it had before. If someone has access to this book, it would edit the article and add citation. In any case, this article needs citation. -- Exitmoose 06:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I have found a pretty good description of the rebellion at http://www.historynet.com/wars_conflicts/19_century/3028391.html?page=1&c=y This is the best English language description of the rebellion that I have ever read. Perhaps it could be used to improve the Wikipedia article. I have added a link to it in an External Links section. Westwind273 04:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Correct Name[edit]

It has always felt strange to me that we call this the "Satsuma Rebellion" in English, when the Japanese call it the "Southwest War". If you said Satsuma Rebellion to Japanese people (Satsuma no Hanran), they likely wouldn't know what you were talking about. It is true that in western circles, this war is most typically called the Satsuma Rebellion. I suppose there are also reverse examples. The Japanese call the US Civil War the "North-South War" (Namboku Senso). Nonetheless, I wish there were a movement in English-language historical circles to rename the Satsuma Rebellion the Southwest War. Westwind273 04:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I have always been a big fan of calling things by their native names. After all, they're more recognizable that way. I prefer "Sengoku" over "Warring States" and "Nanboku-cho" over "Northern-Southern Courts". But "Southwest War" is too ambiguous - it could apply to the southwest of any country or region anywhere in the world. I am actually surprised that the Satsuma Rebellion is not called such in Japanese; it truly is a very common and standard title in English. And, it's accurately descriptive - it was a Rebellion by the samurai of Satsuma (and Choshu). On the other hand, I suppose if we called it in English "Seinan War", that could be nice, and would clear up the ambiguity. LordAmeth 14:08, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I added "Kagoshima Revolt", which I know is used by some western historians as well as Japanese. Would possibly solve some confusion, I believe. This also needs more detail, I think... origins, events, etc... -RoSeeker 12:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

The numbers given for Imperial government forces are significantly overstated. More likely the numbers engaged were c.60,000 suffering c.16,000 casualties (7,000 dead in battle, 9000 wounded.)(James H. Buck, Monumenta Nipponica, Vol. 28, No. 4 (Winter, 1973), pp. 427-446) As the Meiji military establishment of 1876 numbered 46,350 men under wartime footing; all arms except the Yezo militia included(www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/military-meiji.htm.) The command structure could simply not have been expanded quickly enough to accomodate a six fold increase in numbers in one year, however a two fold increase is not improbable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Des burnett (talkcontribs) 23:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Accuracy in translating a Sino-Japanese Phrase 新政厚徳[edit]

The translation of the slogan of the movement "新政厚徳" as "New government, High morality" is not quite accurate although the general sense is conveyed.

  • 新政厚徳 : Adj + N + Adj + N; New government, High morality

When a kanji that can function either as an adjective/adverb or a verb occurs before a noun, AND the whole phrase is not required to remain a noun phrase (NP), the part of speech prefers the verb; hence the compound sentence as follows.

  • 新政厚徳 : V + Obj + V + Obj; Renew the government; raise morality.

The mood of the verb would be the imperative, although the optative would be more natural considering that Saigo, in his words at least, had never intended a rebellion against the state, but more importantly, that the movement failed with the slogan never materialising as planned. --Lex (talk) 12:47, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Russian weapon[edit]

Model 1857 Six Line (Russian) muzzle loading rifles selled to Satsuma according to order Alexander 2. Russia to upgrade its forces to Berdan rifles but money is not enough. In addition the French were the enemies of Russia and to expand their activities in Hokkaido. (Republic of Ezo). But as they, together with the Dutchman were the main suppliers of arms to the Emperor Meiji. And russian simle - sell old rifle to rebels. 95.52.115.128 (talk) 13:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

What were the Satsuma doing with this rifle to only fire one round a minute? Similar weapons in the hands of western troops (a number of nations employed this rifle, or very similar copies of) were rated to fire 3+. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.75.48.5 (talk) 09:59, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Can we start using the word "ironic" correctly?[edit]

"Fearing a rebellion, the Meiji government sent a warship to Kagoshima to remove the weapons stockpiled at the Kagoshima arsenal on January 30, 1877. Ironically, this provoked open conflict, although with the elimination of samurai rice stipends in 1877, tensions were already extremely high."

What precisely is ironic about a conflict arising from a warship being sent to confiscate weapons? I will help you out by answering the question; there is nothing ironic about that at all, in fact, it could not be less ironic, that is how little irony there is in that situation. Stop using the word irony if you don't know how to use it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.8.132.118 (talk) 21:37, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

ex-samurai[edit]

Under Order of battle: Organization of the Imperial Forces:


"The Imperial Guard (mostly ex-samurai)..."


Is this a correct usage, as samurai form a social class? Heavenlyblue (talk) 22:13, 10 September 2013 (UTC)