Talk:Schout

Hello - I just started here and I'm feeling a sense of ownership over this page right now.

I've expanded this stub specifically to help explain the office to people who are interested in the more nuts-and-bolts aspects of Dutch history. I also hope to expand this to the related topics like "heer", "schepen", etc. Unfortunately, the article about "schout" on the Dutch branch has not been developed yet and seems to lean heavily on the Germany entry. I invite any Dutch deskundige to prepare a proper article there and I'll make sure it is reflected here.

A few points about the change to the intro. I felt I had to change what was there (and then back again) because it was not really historically accurate and it seemed to ignore the predominately administrative and mayor-like function of the "schout".

The "schout" was a key figure in Dutch public life for centuries. I understand that Americans consider the "schout" to have been important to their law enforcement history. But it was essentially a Dutch administrative office and this American angle lasted only a few decades. It seems to me to have been a footnote to the concept of "schout" in general.

I hope someone could perhaps add a separate section that expands on the interesting role of the "schout" in the development of the American system, but I don't think it should dominate or introduce the article.

The use of terms like "sheriff" or "prosecutor" seems anachronistic and not true to the separate system that fluorished in the Dutch-speaking provinces.

I would also like to add that I find the phrase "New Netherland" to be a little strange. It seems to have become conventional in the US though. I'll try to get used to it! Why should the plural term "Netherlands" be used so rigidly in English for Nederland, but not for Nieuw Nederland? Something seems askew there.

Thanks for cleaning it up by the way. It looks much more conventional. As I do the other subjects, I'll try to stick to the format. Schildewaert (talk) 20:39, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Speculation, but I think the singular is used because the colony was only one state, whereas the Netherlands were historically a federation of states. I know that several 19th century English writers, like Johnson, used the plural — people love consistency — but there seems to have been a return to matching the original Dutch.

So far as the intro, my real concern was getting some summary of the schout's function right at the start, since someone should be able to get a good idea of the subject just from the lead. I think you found a good away around the anachronism, which I was too lazy to worry about. It was certainly not my intention to try to own the article. I just created this stub just to remove a redlink from Adriaen van der Donck when it was a featured article candidate, so I'm glad someone finally came along to expand it and correct the natural American bias. — Laura Scudder ☎ 02:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)