Talk:Skowhegan, Maine

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Maine Mid‑importance

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Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Images

Got any images newer than 1908? Astronaut (talk) 10:13, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mitchell

Was Senator Mitchell from here or was it another nearby town? Auchansa (talk) 01:09, 14 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Protection

Semi-ed one week due to recent disruption and possible socking. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 19:10, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mascot issue

Magnolia677, I moved the mascot information to the school district to retain it after blanking. This matter thrust the town of Skowhegan into national news, it would seem that it should at the very least be mentioned on the Skowhegan page. Having nothing to do with the school district, citizens of Skowhegan continue to be reported on in local, state and regional news sources, refusing to let go of the former mascot regardless of state legislation. This has not been an issue in other towns in the district. Indigenous girl (talk) 19:10, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The text contained in the article focused entirely on the school board, not the town in which the school board is located. If this issue "thrust the town of Skowhegan into national news", that was not reflected in the text, and would need to be supported by reliable sources. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:17, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it should be on the pages for both the town and the board. As this is the mascot for a specific school, it isn't necessarily any more relevant for the board than the town. As well I don't believe it should be shunted onto an obscure stub article for a school district. From the sources it sounds like there was considerable community involvement in this debate and that deserves recognition. At the very least I think it is critically important for it to be referenced in the town article even if the primary text on it is under the board article, if length is a concern. Like it or not, articles on smaller towns are a one stop shop for what is going on in the town and it feels dishonest to exclude what seems like an important part of recent local history. Julius177 (talk) 20:10, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A comment was requesprf on WPSCHOOLS. :Skowhegan Area High School is red link, and there is no Skowhegan, Maine#Skowhegan Area High School section. Until they have been written we have a case of WP:UNDUE and the whole thing is off-focus. As for the text it seems to be out of scope WP:NOTNEWSPAPER ClemRutter (talk) 22:05, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This would be WP:NOTNEWS and a primarily local interest topic unless you can show that this controversy has been the subject of widespread and enduring coverage in detail by multiple reliable sources. Something being significant to the city is not a reason to include it. You need to show this is something important about the city (using a historic perspective) to a widespread audience. John from Idegon (talk) 23:41, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Skowhegan Indians was the last racially based mascot in the state. It was changed just prior to state legislation being passed banning them. Prior to the ban, some residents of the town were working together to try and get the change over turned. This made the NYT. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/22/us/native-american-sports-logos.html, USNews https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/maine/articles/2019-03-08/skowhegan-votes-to-retire-indians-nickname-after-debate, the Washington Post (in an opinion piece) https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/schools-in-2-states-just-retired-native-american-mascots-the-dc-nfl-team-should-take-note/2019/08/17/9368827a-8c53-11e9-adf3-f70f78c156e8_story.html, CNN https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/17/us/maine-bans-native-american-mascots/index.html, and regional news outlets. I would be happy to show more sources with regard to this being more than a local or regional issue. Indigenous girl (talk) 00:43, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This looks sourced, ongoing, and nationally notable, so it is not a violation of WP:NOTNEWS. Stop the edit warring, especially Magnolia677, who has blanked this three times. It looks to me like restoring to the stable, sourced version prior to the blanking would be best. Though it wouldn't hurt to add more sources if not all of the national ones are yet included in the stable version. Best, - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 20:26, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'll revert and add more sources shortly. Indigenous girl (talk) 20:39, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW the CNN article was already in there so I am unsure as to why the claims that this is a local school district only issue. Indigenous girl (talk) 21:40, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I see User:Mark Ironie has now joined the edit war. May I suggest we wait for a consensus here, instead of having a pissing match on the article? Perhaps an RfC is needed. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:51, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Policy clearly supports inclusion here. It is well-sourced, and was stable aside from blocked vandals. An RfC would be fine, but policy supports it staying on the stable, pre-blanking version in the meantime. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 00:31, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My concern about the text that has been added back into this article is that it adds a whopping 13,785 bytes of text to the wrong article. Every source cited indicates that this issue involves the Maine School Administrative District 54, not the city in which the school board is located. As a compromise, and per WP:UNDUE, may I suggest the following instead be added to this article:

In 2019, Skowhegan High School stopped naming their mascot "Indian" following "years of contentious debate and almost 100 years of tradition". The Maine School Administrative District 54's weighted vote was 558 to 441 for changing the school's theme.^[1] Magnolia677 (talk) 00:28, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Mitchell, Jennifer (March 11, 2019). "Skowhegan Votes to Retire 'Indians' Mascot". Bangor Daily News.

Looking at the sourcing for the section, it is clear that this issue effects people in the entire region, not just individuals at the school. The town is notable partially for being named in the coverage of the mascot issue. This factor seems to make it clear that this article is still the best place for it. Sourcing about it affecting Maine as a whole:

On May 16, 2019 Maine became the first state in the country to ban the use of Native American mascots, permanently putting an end to the issue.^[1]^[2]^[3]

References

^ Acquisto, Alex (May 16, 2019). "Mills signs bill to make Maine the first state to ban Native American school mascots". Bangor Daily News. Retrieved 18 July 2019.

^ Williams, David (May 17, 2019). "Maine to become first state to ban Native American mascots in public schools". CNN. Retrieved 18 July 2019.

^ Hauser, Christine (May 22, 2019). "Maine Just Banned Native American Mascots. It's a Movement That's Inching Forward". New York Times. Retrieved 26 November 2019.

- CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 00:48, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's my contention, and I believe Magnolia's too, that what is needed in this bit is drasticly less emphasis on it. It shouldn't be in its own section, it should be in history. The bulk of this belongs in the article we have on the subject, Native American mascot controversy. I'd have no problem with a mention (like a sentence) in the history section incorporating a wikilink to the above mentioned article. This town is 250 years old. Anything that only effects 1-2 year of that is definitely minor. This content is not differentiating. There are literally hundreds of schools affected by mascot changes due to increased awareness of human rights (although I'm not aware of any constitutional guarentee of right to be addressed how you choose or to not be offended, just sayin...). You have stated that this legaslative action is state wide. That makes discussion of this a state topic. This is very much a WEIGHT issue. It's also a COATRACK issue. Make the size of the bit commensurate with its importance to the history of the community as a whole. It's an issue that has been repeated, usually more than once, in every single state in the country. It isn't particularly differentiating, and the additions everywhere on this have all been too weighty, no matter where it's recorded. WP:RECENT also applies. John from Idegon (talk) 01:23, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I came across this discussion from a notice at WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America. It seems appropriate to include a paragraph or two on the event here; the entire section that was recently added is far too detailed for an encyclopedia article. A brief high-level summary would better serve the reader. The section is also written almost entirely from one perspective. Although it's clear who is "on the right side of history" here, it seems to be written entirely from the "anti-mascot" side and leaves out a large part of the story. –dlthewave ☎ 16:01, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I stumbled across Native American mascot laws and regulations#Maine, which could be a useful example or wikilink. The MSAD 54 is currently a stub. Developing that article to the point where a couple sentences about the mascot isn't WP:UNDUE could be a constructive solution that improves the encyclopedia. --Hebisddave (talk) 15:17, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Mitchell, Jennifer (March 11, 2019). "Skowhegan Votes to Retire 'Indians' Mascot". Bangor Daily News.

[2] Acquisto, Alex (May 16, 2019). "Mills signs bill to make Maine the first state to ban Native American school mascots". Bangor Daily News. Retrieved 18 July 2019.

[3] Williams, David (May 17, 2019). "Maine to become first state to ban Native American mascots in public schools". CNN. Retrieved 18 July 2019.

[4] Hauser, Christine (May 22, 2019). "Maine Just Banned Native American Mascots. It's a Movement That's Inching Forward". New York Times. Retrieved 26 November 2019.

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