Talk:Slava (tradition)/Archive 1

Archive 1

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Serbs are not autochthonous to the Balkans. Serbs themselves will tell of their proud slavic /Russia origin so I corrected it. This is settled so it should not be controversial. File:Http://z.about.com/d/historymedren/1/0/X/1/invasions.gif--Keep it Fake (talk) 00:02, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually friend, Serbs came from western Germany. Prior to to the Wendish invasion into Europe, that area was not populated even by Germanic tribes because of it's inaccessibility through sea or other waterways. The Slavs altogether came from somewhere near the join of Scandinavia and mainland Eurasia (see: various pottery and archeological evidence). It was later during the Roman period when Germanic barbarian incursions forced Serbs from west Germany down into central Europe, where they moved through the Carpathian/Alp pass and by the Danube river to the Hunguri plains, where the Serbs took battle with the Avars and upon defeating them settle from the South Hunguri plains all the way into the Roman province of Illyria. Since Illyria was not populated at the time, the Roman emperor granted the Serbs (and the trailing Horvati tribes) the right to settle that Roman province in exchange for taxation, the tax was continued through the various empires (eastern roman, ottoman etc). So, if you mean to say that Serbs came from the location of present day Russian federation you would be correct. But keep in mind that Russian Federation is very large and holds the homelands of ALL Slavs, as well as the Finns, Mongols, Turks, Manchu, Mayans including all North and South American Natives, Japanese and possibly Koreans, all central Asian Caucasian cultures, as well as all Europeans that might have passed through it on the way to Europe and so on and so forth. You would be hard pressed to find a people without origins or deeply rooted history in the territories of present day Russia. 99.236.221.124 (talk) 01:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Serbs

are autochtonous in Balkan. Slavs or Slavoserbs by its name came to Balkans, but thrue whole middle age its population are incorporated unified with all old nations which lives in Balkan as Celts, Illirians, Tracians, Dacians, Hellens etc. Slavoserbian culture and language as language of state and culture and civilization of Slavs are axepted. So todays Serbs are just partly slavs. Tjat is obvious when you see lot of different tipes of Serbs from light blond over every brown hair color from light to dark to the people with black hair, also with green (as one of serbian characteristics) but also brown and blue eyes which characteristics are so deeply mixed which knowd every who ever were in Serb landes. Also color of skin are form wery white to light dark. And in the end you could see mix of all that combinations, people with light dark skin, green eyes and blond hair, redhairs with brown eyes, people with verry dark black hair with verry white skin and blue eyes etc. When you see majority of population of western Europe which have more percents of people with same characteristics, part of Balkan which are settled by today Serbs are something different. Also you shoud see how majority of population of russians, poles, czechs , slovaks or slovenians, as slav nations, looks, and to see big difference whren we talk about balkan Slavs (former Yugoslavia and also Bulgaria which are story for itself) --109.245.120.132 (talk) 23:58, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Expertise

While I'm not an expert on the subject, shouldn't there be some mention to how the Slava started as a way of celebrating the day the family's main ancestor killed his first Turkish soldier during the wars between Serbia and Turkey? - Gorovich

Yes except that's not how it started so - no. Thank you for your input. --estavisti 03:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Slava started waaaaay before that ... SSJ 5 19:41, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The Slava has had a huge revival with the resurgent Serbian nationalism in the years after the fall of the Communist regime in Yugoslavia. Its main claim to fame is that it is a mark of the Serbs only, and that it goes back to the time in the 9th century, when the Serbs accepted Christianity. However the only reference given is to the decidedly nationalistic Rastko website and the article there written by a Serb bishop in 1963. How about some references to scientific historic studies of the main claims? C0gnate 20:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Nationalistic? What the hell are you talking about, of course it's nationalistic. We are talking about the nationalism of a nation here. 99.236.221.124 (talk) 01:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Croats

Slava was celebrated in Dalmatia and on the islands by some Catholics up to the early 20th century, among them were some of my relatives. --estavisti 03:59, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

That tells a lot about Dalmatians. Thanks Estavisti. Cheers.24.86.127.209 (talk) 05:37, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

There are two explanations of that, and one of them will not be very liked... Do you know of some literature which studies slava from scientific point of view? Nikola 11:00, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

By the way, Russians who celebrate Slava are also likely of Serbian origin (or so is oftenly claimed), descending from Serbs who settled in Slavenoserbia. Nikola 11:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I will be direct - what about their possible Serb origins? Many of contemporary Croats are of Serb origins. But they are refuse that opinion usually. Maybe they were accepted that they were Croats because of diverse historic reasons, although were Serbs, but customs like slava were retained. --User:Vanished user 8ij3r8jwefi 21:08, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Macedonians

Macedonians also celebrate Slava and are Christian Orthodox. It was most likely influenced by the Serbs on the Macedonians, back in the days of Yugoslavia. However, Macedonians still celebrate Slava all over the world.

Macedonians do not have a recognized orthodox church, and technically belong to the Serbian Orthodox Church. The origin of the Macedonian Slavs is traced to ethnic Serbs and Bulgarians. Macedonians began identifying as separate in 194123.242.82.2 (talk) 19:25, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

The Macedonian nation and identity are older than you think and we called ourselves that after settling in the area long before 1941. Bulgarians have some turkic ancestry. Macedonians do not. I won't disagree that we have a lot in common with Serbs more so but the fact Macedonian is not so well understood by the average Serb speaker doesn't exactly benefit your claim that we are Serbs and nothing else. I don't know where you get your information from but you better stop spreading hatred towards fellow Slavs because it will harm only you, and nobody else. Uzdravlje. 184.146.170.144 (talk) 07:24, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Fasting

Moved from the article:

To prepare for the celebration, the family traditionally fasts for a week in order to receive Holy Communion on the day of the slava.

Sorry, I didn't hear of that, the fairly comprehensive x-link does not mention "пост" in relation with Slava. The customs may differ across the region, but I'm fairly sure the statement is not true. Please cite the appropriate source. Duja^► 14:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Typical tradition

The Macedonian Slavs were some time ago considered a part of the Serbian nation, and they were greatly under influence from the Serbs (throughout the whole history); it is no wonder that they accepted the slava (just like the Montenegrins). As for Bulgaria and Greece - well, that's with the [geographically macedonian] areas settled by the Macedonian Slavs. The Orthodox Albanians are, historically, very, very close to Serbs and they have also been under their influence greatly (Serbs and Albanians were great friends before the Ottomans reshaped the Balkan world, oddly enough). The custom became known thus also to the Romas, and a lot of (Serbian origin?) Slavic Muslims in the Balkans. As for the others, where are the sources for that? It seems pretty odd to me... --PaxEquilibrium 01:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The article presents a good explanation of the Slava, but it fails to mention that this costum is shared by many non-Orthodox (including Muslms) people in the region, and does not acknowledge hypotheses of a pre-Christian origin. Does anyone with the appropriate references feel like adding this information? (Unfortunately, I do not have literature on the topic.)213.47.123.225 19:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed that is correct. There are many Byzantine records of the White Serbs' pagan traditions. --PaxEquilibrium 23:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

That is not truth. All slavs in Macedonia (whole region ) had Slava, but after destroying of patriarchy of Peć, whole southern part of former Serbian empire became part of Constantinople greek patriarchy. Then hellenization started and partly were influenced on percent of people which celebrated it. Slava and every slavic custom were forbiden, because of that people there without serbian priests couldnt continiue whith that custom, but continue with custom in the house, because of that Slava in Macedonia is little beat different then in Serbia for example and in some areas (west and Skoplje region) are absolutely the same. After that bulgarization came over Egzarchy, and "Imenden" were start to celebrate as russians do. Sam e thing were also in western Bulgaria Shopi region, for them Imenden is absolutely new custom imported over bulgarian church, and they also had Slava till begining of 20th century. Serbian church-school municipalities in Macedonia started in the end of 19 century and only were strong in western and northern part of todays FYRO Macedonia. But, Slava continuing in area over Bitola, also Veles and Prilep even this regions were strongly progreek, or probulgarian. Noone cant forcely give to someone custom, especialy for that small historical period of some 20-30 years and to peasant uneducated unliteral population , cause on 1921 census 88% of population in serbian part of Macedonia didnt know to right or read! You must say that is verry defecault to that kind of population get some more common new things are strange and , not to talk about some religious customs in Balkan area which is even today full of folk customs with different from village to village. Funny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.245.120.132 (talk) 00:16, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Slava doesn't belong to Greek Orthodox Churches

Slava is a Slavic concept unknown in Romania, Greece and Cyprus. Don't mix this countries with Balkan's Slaves nor Greek Orthodox Churches with Russian Orthodox Churches. 88.192.241.146 (talk) 16:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Why shouldn't we mix the orthodox churches? The Bulgarian Orthodox Church also doesn't have the concept of 'slava' neither, so what? And they are Slavs too. You'd better stop spreading hatred towards Slavs because it will harm only you, and nobody else. Uzdravlje.24.86.127.209 (talk) 05:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

It's right that the Bulgarian Orthodox Church doesn't have the concept of 'slava', and Reference No. 4 deny "slava" as bulgarian holiday but confirms the bulgarian "sabor"(celebration of the patron saint of the village) and the bulgarian "imenden" (celebration of the personal patron saint). It looks more like traditions in Greece, nor as serbs. Bulgarians make "kurban" instead "slavski kolač" or "koljivo".

Slava or Krsna slava (synonims) is specifically Serbian Orthodox family feast, celebration of saint - patron of one family, all other cases are exceptions of the rule

Krsna slava is specifically Serbian Orthodox family feast, all other cases are exceptions of the rule. Slava as a family feast of patron saint is different from slava as a feast of the church, village etc that could be seen in all Orthodox Churches. Krsna slava is strongly connected to the Serbian Orthodox Church. To celebrate Slava means to celebrate particular patron saint of Orthodox Church in the Church, or if priest comes to one’s home. Priest has specific prayers for slava in the book of the prayers of the Serbian Orthodox Church.

There are no many (in number) exceptions of the rule, and they are closely connected to the history of the Serbian Orthodox Church. There is Serbian minority in other countries (Macedonia, Romania, Croatia etc) and citizens of these countries celebrate slava, because they are Serbs (of Macedonia, Croatia etc). Those who celebrate Slava in Montenegro are Serbs, or of Serbian origin (in the case in which some of them do not consider themselves Serbs any more, or Serb-Montenegrins, but only Montenegrins). Among catholic population in Republic of Croatia (Dalmatia, Coratia and Slavonia), there were records that some families celebrate Slava. Those families always have Serb Orthodox origin. They were first usually converted to Greek Catholics (became uniats) and later pure Catholics, and today they are almost all Croats, not Serbs. The Serbs of Bela Krajina in Slovenia and those of Žumberak in Croatia, which have same origin (same families) moved there in the 16th century use to celebrate Krsna slava. Those who are still members of Serbian Orthodox Church are still celebrating slava and declaring as Serbs, but those who are today Greek-Catholics, or Catholics, are not celebrating slava any more, and they are Croats today. Custom of Krsna slava was somewhere dying out slowly, and somewhere faster. The dying out custom of celebrating slava among Catholic Croats could have been seen in Konavle near Dubrovnik still in 20th century. There is also case of Muslim Gorani population that celebrate Krsna slava, but they used to be Orthodox Serbs before they converted to Islam, according to their tradition together with their priests. When speaking of Wlachs of Eastern Serbia, some of them celebrate slava, and others do not celebrate slava. Some of them are declaring as Wlachs, and some as Romanians. Celebrating of slava is in connection to family histories. Some families are mixed Serb-Wlach families, in other cases there was an influence of Serbs (if those Wlach families were not living in remote ethnically pure Wlach villages as usually in the past, but in mixed villages). There is also a case, present all around the world that someone born in one ethnic community wants to become member of other ethnic community. In such a case we could speak of influences of Serbs on families that do not have Serbian origin. In these individual cases it is always a matter of specific family history. For example there were some Cincar or Greek, or Bohemian, German etc families who gradually became Serbian through marriages, living in Serbia etc. Some of them know precisely when they have accepted Serbian custom of celebrating the patron Saint and went to church to acknowledge that from that date they are celebrating slava.

That is the reson why proper definition of slava is that it is a feast (genus proximum) of Orthodox Serbs (differentia specifica) All excemptions are listed in the beginig of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.91.1.42 (talk) 14:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Right.Draganparis (talk) 20:06, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Delusion?

This claim besides not being said as such in the source, is clearly incorrect. Slava is clearly a tradition taken from pre-Christian traditions and adapted into Orthodox festivities. It was addopted and spread as such by Serbs exclusively. FkpCascais (talk) 11:27, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

On a contrary. You can check it as in the Bulgarian version:

И тук сме напълно съгласни с констатацията на Миленко Филипович, че тезата за това как славата, службата или кръстното име са чисто сръбски белег, е: “…заблуда на романтичното и патриотично гражданство и пишещите от тази среда”, заблуда, от която “jе само Српство имало више штете, него користи” (Филиповић М., 1985; 152). Макар тук и там из научната и особено из популярната литература, дори и в официални издания на Сръбската православна църква да се преповтарят някои от тези романтични заблуди за славата като сръбски етно-идентификационен маркер, сериозните учени, интерпретиращи славата - М. Филипович, В. Чайканович, П. Влахович, П. Ж. Петровић, Н. Пантелич, Сл. Зечевич, Д. Бандич, изтъкват предимно аграрните и интегративни функции на обредността, обединена под названието слава, и нейната обвързаност с култа към предците.

as well as in the English one:

And here we completely agree to the conclusion of Milenko Filipović that the thesis regarding the slava, služba or the krastno ime were a purely Serbian feature, was “a delusion of the romantic and patriotic citizenry and those from among those circles that were writers”, a delusion, of which “ : "je samo Srpstvo imalo više štete, nego koristi” [“The Serbian people have had more losses than benefits/advantages”]. (Filipović M., 1985; 152). Although here and there in scholarly publications, and particularly in popular books, even in the formal publications of the Serbian Eastern Orthodox Church, some of these romantic delusions about the slava as a Serbian ethnic identification marker are repeated, the serious scholars giving interpretation to the slava M.Filipović, V.Čajkanović, P.Vlahović, N.Pantelić, S.Zečević, D.Bandić, point out mostly the agrarian and integrative functions of the set of rites and rituals, united under the name of slava, and its tie-up with the cult for the forefathers.

Both citations are identical texts in Bulgarian and English from Ethnologia Balkanica and from Rastko project. About Protogerov and his actions now. These actions are described by Slijepčević (Serbian nationalist) but are represented out of the context. Protogerov was also nationalist - Bulgarian General, but also IMRO vojvode. He was a commander of the 11th Macedonian infantry division consisting exclusively from Macedonians, but Bulgrarian, mostly former IMRO-chetniks. These actions were maintained in the limited area east of Kumanovo called Kozjak. Even today most of the Serbian minority in the RoM is concentrated here. Because of the pro-Serbian sympathy of the locals they undoubtedly were repressed by Macedono-Bulgarian soldiers. However most of the local Slavs in the area declared then Bulgarian identity and the number of the victims was relatively small. As mentioned above the thesis regarding the Slava, as a purely Serbian feature, as in Macedonia, as well in Bulgaria etc, then and now is simply a delusion. I.e. the actions of Protogerov and the opinion of Slijepčević were biased, and based on the war-time nationalism, and not on the social reality. I propose this part from the text to be dropped. Jingiby (talk) 11:54, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2021

i think you should add that the serbs are the only group of people that have this tradition. 103.20.49.94 (talk) 23:58, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 00:10, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Should we include Macedonians on the list of those who celebrate Slava as well?

Macedonians also have Slava as a tradition and frequently celebrate it, yet only Serbs are listed as the group that celebrates it. Could this be changed to include Macedonians? While it is very likely the tradition of Slava was introduced to Macedonia by the Serbs, it's still very much also a Macedonian tradition as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.139.239.64 (talk) 06:35, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the mention of 'Croats' celebrating Slava

The following parahraph is listed:

Besides present day Serbia, Slava is also common in some of the territories where Serbian medieval state extended its rule and cultural influence, but not only there. Similar or identical traditions are found in different countries on the Balkans and not only among the Serbs, but also among Montenegrins, Macedonians, occasionally among Croats, Catholics from the Bay of Kotor, Konavle, Southern Herzegovina, Bosansko Grahovo, Janjevci, Christians in Northern Albania, and Muslims among Gorani and some Bosniaks in Bosnia. A similar tradition is found in Western Bulgaria, also among some Vlachs and Aromanians.

The source is listed as the following, which specifically mentions in Croatian Slava is solely celebrated by Serbs. Could we perhaps rephrase the these ethnic groups identified as also celebrating Slava or "similar" traditions? There is furthermore absolutely no source for any of the other highlighted groups of people. The following reference lists pages 69-80 and could be further specified exactly where the mention of Aromanians and Vlachs also celebrate Slava, Sabor or a derivative thereof. A simple search yields no mention of either Vlachs or Aromanians.

Slava is a traditional inherently tied with Serb identity and should not be grouped amongst other groups of people on the Balkans without any substantial references or sources. Including these other groups of people is by all means a completely biased narrative and could be an attempt of assimilating the Serbs living, or having lived, in the mentioned regions.

I propose the following changes:

Besides present day Serbia, Slava is commonly celebrated amongst ethnic Serbs living in neighbouring Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro. Despite the tradition being inherently tied to Serbian Orthodox Christanity it is also practiced to a lesser extent amongst Catholic and Muslim ethnicities in the region with an example being Goranis living in present-day southern Kosovo. Furthermore, Slava is celebrated by Macedonians and a similar tradition can found in Western Bulgaria, also among some Vlachs and Aromanians. Othmas biaggio (talk) 04:06, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree with above proposal with small addition as follows: Besides present day Serbia, Slava is commonly celebrated amongst ethnic Serbs living in neighbouring Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro. Despite the tradition being inherently tied to Serbian Orthodox Christanity it is also practiced to a lesser extent amongst Catholic and Muslim ethnicities in the region with such examples as the Catholics from the Bay of Kotor, and the Goranis living in present-day southern Kosovo. Furthermore, Slava is celebrated by Macedonians and a similar tradition can found in Western Bulgaria, also among some Vlachs and Aromanians. Jingiby (talk) 08:45, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Why would you be so specific regarding smaller local communities? How large a group of people are we talking about here? I believe the paragraph as I proposed covers what you propose with smaller communities such as Catholics in Kotor or Muslims in Skadar even practicing Slava - this doesn't have to be explicitly specified for every city and local subidivision and can be deducted from the following:

Despite the tradition being inherently tied to Serbian Orthodox Christanity it is also practiced to a lesser extent amongst Catholic and Muslim ethnicities in the region

A noteworthy mention to point out are the Gorani who constitute a significant number in southern Kosovo, who despite their Islamic faith have kept practicing Slava. Perhaps changing the sentence to this would sum it up:

Despite the tradition being inherently tied to Serbian Orthodox Christanity it is also practiced to a lesser and scattered extent amongst Catholic and Muslim ethnicities in the region

What do you think about this? Othmas biaggio (talk) 10:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

The Croats, Vlachs and Aromanians are clearly mentioned in the cited sources. Jingiby (talk) 10:08, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

In the removed reference it is specifically stated Serbs in Croatia celebrate Slava yet the written paragraph does not mention this. I have never disputed Vlachs and Aromanians celebrating Slava. Could you point to the specific page or place in the reference where it mentions Croats celebrate Slava? Croats do not celebrate Slava.

From the reference:

krsna slava (krsno ime), običaj posebno raširen u Srba (u Hrvata samo mjestimice) - these places being the ones inhabitated by ethnic Serbs, who numbered around 20% of the country before the 1990s.

I propose the final edit being:

Besides present day Serbia, Slava is commonly celebrated amongst ethnic Serbs living in neighbouring Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro. Despite the tradition being inherently tied to Serbian Orthodox Christanity it is also practiced to a lesser and scattered extent amongst Catholic and Muslim ethnicities in the region with an example being Goranis living in present-day southern Kosovo. Furthermore, Slava is celebrated by Macedonians and a similar tradition can found in Western Bulgaria, also among some Vlachs and Aromanians.

There is absolutely no point in listing cities or municipalities across countries. Othmas biaggio (talk) 11:10, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

In Petko Hristov, The Use of Holidays for Propaganda Purposes: The "Serbian" Slava and/or the "Bulgarian" Săbor in Ethnologia Balkanica. LIT Verlag Münster on p. 70. Croats are clearly mentioned as people who celebrate the Slava. Jingiby (talk) 11:23, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you.

That's the other reference. The author seem to have invoked the fact from thin air as it is not referenced or either it's included in the Literature list. The author seems to group a specific set of customs under one umbrella term equalling it to Slava, basically saying Slava is loosely defined, but nevertheless mentions Serbs were the first to categorize it and tie it to their cultural identity referencing Milos Milojevic (page 70).

The author fixates the struggle for establishing a national identity through customs such as Slava in a post-Ottoman geopolitical landscape specifically examining the cultural barrier between Serbia and Bulgaria with the author being Bulgarian. Hristov even calls the categorical definition a delusion as referenced in [15].

But let's zoom out for a bit - do we need a detailed historical definition based on a research paper as part of the overview? The article is clearly about present day Slava with it's categorical definition and pratictioning by almost solely Serbs. Croats generally do not know what Slava is and those few who do consider it a Serbian tradition as it is practiced by ethnic Serbs in Croatia. The ones celebrating it in Northern Albania are the remnants of the Serbian and Montenegrin minorities, who all regardless of faith celebrate Slava. This is accounted for by first hand in this documentary interviewing people who were forcefully assimilated and Albanized, but nevertheless despite changing names kept their identity.

So the page is defined as describing the categorized Serbian Slava - if it was another tradition the name of the article would be something different. There is no reason to include local and municipal divisions as part of some historic distribution in the overview or to include people who celebrate likewise traditions. Furthermore, stating it "spread" with the Serbian medieval state is also quite biased since the author mentions it wasn't specifically tied to Serbian national identity until Milojevic's statement - how can it spread if it hasn't been defined yet? Othmas biaggio (talk) 12:08, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@Jingiby please double check translations before trusting new editors at face value. They literally said the opposite from what the source says while ostensibly citing it. --Joy (talk) 13:12, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

You can't be serious:

https://www.ipqualityscore.com/vpn-ip-address-check/lookup/91.148.114.224

Jingiby check this out - we have Joy spoofing IP's to make it look like I am continuing to undo his revisions. Othmas biaggio (talk) 11:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

I am really confused. Jingiby (talk) 12:09, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Check out the administrator noticeboard - Joy is witch-hunting me. Othmas biaggio (talk) 12:15, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

What's even more peculiar is you undoing the revision merely four minutes after it was done followed by now adding sources in Croatian. Othmas biaggio (talk) 12:52, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

I propose again as a compromise my version from above: Besides present day Serbia, Slava is commonly celebrated amongst ethnic Serbs living in neighbouring Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro. Despite the tradition being inherently tied to Serbian Orthodox Christianity it is also practiced to a lesser extent amongst Catholic and Muslim ethnicities in the region with such examples as the Catholics from the Bay of Kotor, and the Goranis living in present-day southern Kosovo. Furthermore, Slava is celebrated by Macedonians and a similar tradition can found in Western Bulgaria, but also among some Vlachs and Aromanians. Jingiby (talk) 12:36, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

This sounds reasonable. Thank you for a respectful discussion. Othmas biaggio (talk) 13:06, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

So I come here after seeing a bit of missing text that I remember was the topic of edit wars in the past, and wouldn't you know it it happened again. The article text was:

occasionally among Croats,

References

The text and its translation is very simple:

krsna slava (krsno ime), običaj posebno raširen u Srba (u Hrvata samo mjestimice), kojim pojedine obitelji ili rodovi štuju zajedničkoga sveca zaštitnika.

krsna/baptismal slava (krsno/baptismal name), a custom especially widespread among Serbs (among Croats only in some places), by which certain families or clans worship a common patron saint.

It doesn't say "in Croatia", it says in "Croats", there is nothing ambiguous about this. And the reason for that is likely that this actually exists in reality. Try doing for example a https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahrcak.srce.hr+hrvati+krsna+slava and see a bunch of scholarly references to it. This amount of weirdly justified edit warring and thinly veiled ethnonationalist argumentation is a violation of WP:ARBMAC. --Joy (talk) 13:02, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

You are saying 'likely', which implies you actually don't know whether what you're writing holds and objective truth to it or not. Furthermore, the edits were discussed and agreed upon with Jingiby. The content even states the tradition is also practiced to a lesser extent by some 'Muslim and Catholic ethnicities', which I find very fitting, since the tradition is almost exclusively practiced by, and tied to, Serbs, Serbia and the Serbian Orthodox Church. You seem extremely triggered over Croats not being mentioned explicitly, which leads to me to question your bias and how it applies to minor edits like these. Referring to a simple Google search result as being proof of something is quite amateurish and the page lists a whopping 67 results, which all primarily relate to history rather than being examples of the tradition supposedly being practiced today.

Would it be wrong to say a tradition like Thanksgiving is celebrated primarily by Americans without the need to explicitly mention other miniscule communities practicing the tradition?

I propose we discard your edit as the content has already been discussed. There is no need to go over content, which was already agreed upon in the first place. Othmas biaggio (talk) 15:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:Editing policy etc. This is completely meaningless. --Joy (talk) 15:30, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Of course it isn't - you're using a Google search result with 67 results as proof or evidence for your claim. Is this Wikipedia or your own personal blog? The content you wanted changed was already discussed and agreed upon - there is no reason to enter into perpetual infinite discussions over the same content and whether it should appear or not. Othmas biaggio (talk) 15:44, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Anyway, there are indeed reliable sources that claim some Croats also celebrate Slava. I think this argument is already redundant. Greetings. Jingiby (talk) 12:34, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

About Ivo Mišur - it's the SAME GUY with THE SAME BALD HEAD. Don't lie in your summary. You are quoting patent examiner as if he is professional historian. Shameful. 91.148.114.224 (talk) 13:46, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

On Google Scholar Ivo Mišur is described as an independent researcher, expert in local and minority history and ethnology. It is quite possible for a single person to have two higher educations and be an expert in different fields, as in humanitarian, as well as in technical science. Jingiby (talk) 16:19, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

So you admit you were wrong and it's the same guy? Good. Now you are saying or implying he has higher education in humanities or history to be more precise? Well, no. He is not described as "an independent researcher, expert in local and minority history and ethnology" that is how he described himself. And look here on ResearchGate where he is described as Master of Engineering!?!?!? All his work is about "church history", "local history" and "demographic analysis" yet he has NO DEGREE IN ANY OF THOSE FIELDS. Guy is an amateur, no expert or professional. So yeah, he does not fit to be proper source. 91.148.114.224 (talk) 21:18, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

JFTR, in the meantime, the editor making these claims was indefinitely blocked for egregious policy violations. --Joy (talk) 09:53, 28 December 2023 (UTC)