Talk:South Wales Valleys

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List of important valleys in South Wales Shouldn't the list of 'industrialised valleys' in south Wales include the Gwendraeth valley in the West (which had significant mining) but not include the Usk and Wye valleys in the East which had no significant industrialisation? Huwbwici (talk) 12:03, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

As far as I can see the list is of 'important' not 'industrialised' valleys. What makes you think that industrialisation is more important than tourism, which is what the Usk and Wye valleys are noted for? ♦ Jongleur100 talk 15:09, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Isn't the idea of 'important' valleys a bit vague and POV? What is the criteria for an important valley? Pondle (talk) 17:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree, but as the list exists I would think the Usk and Wye valleys are as 'important' or as notable as any other. Maybe it should simply be a list of all the valleys that have wikilinks that provide quick access to individual articles. ♦ Jongleur100 talk 17:52, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Cardiff Valley[edit]

Welshleprechaun recently made an edit asserting that the Taff Valley is also called the "Cardiff Valley" in the media. I don't know about anyone else, but I haven't seen this phrase used before, and it seems strange to me given that Cardiff itself is relatively flat. I couldn't find a reference to "Cardiff Valley" as a geographical descriptor when searching WalesOnline (though there is a reference to a sports team called the "Cardiff Valley Rams")[1] or the BBC news website.[2] Can any other editors throw any light on the matter? Pondle (talk) 19:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Welshleprechaun, the reference you provided[3] doesn't mention the 'Cardiff Valley'. A transport commentator is quoted as saying "“In addition, there is a very strong case for the electrification also of the Cardiff Valleys routes". This is clearly a reference to the Valley Lines rail network. He's not saying that the Taff Valley is also known as the 'Cardiff Valley', and I don't see how it can be read as such. I've asked Ghymyrtle to comment, as he has a background in geography. In the meantime, please do not revert until we've resolved this issue on the talk page.Pondle (talk) 13:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm reluctant to express a view as I'm not local to the Cardiff area. The only obvious reference I've seen, other than the quite widespread references to the "Cardiff Valley [railway] lines" - is here in relation to Castell Coch - "a romantic fantasy - a piece of Bavaria imported into the Cardiff valley. It clings dramatically to a hillside overlooking the Taff river". So, the term is obviously used to a limited extent. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:55, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Very well then, I will "revert my revert". Pondle (talk) 16:02, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Welshleprechaun, congrats on all the good hard work you've done on the article, one thing however just thought I'd explain my reasoning for not agreeing with expressly listing the Ely, Taff and Rhymney valleys under the subheading 'Cardiff Valleys'. The opening statement reads that and I quote - "The South Wales Valleys (Welsh: Cymoedd De Cymru) are a number of industrialised valleys in South Wales". To subcategorise these valleys within Cardiff creates confusion, since Cardiff does not have valleys as such being flat nor does it share the social demographic of the 'valleys'. The term 'South Wales Valleys' is used within the context of as you correctly point out the indsutrialised regions of South Wales based on the history of coal and iron mining in these areas and their consequent decline. Cardiff like Newport and the Vale of Glamorgan became prosperous because of the valleys but had little coal or iron production of their own right within their boundaries rather these feature rich pastural land, are major ports and largely affluent residential suburbs, hardly what is thought of as 'the valleys'. While the rivers Taff, Ely and Rhymney indeed flow through Cardiff, the article isn't specifically discussing river courses it is discussing valleys in its broad more general sense, nor is it referring to the pseudonyms of railway lines (i.e. Cardiff Valley Lines). To list these valleys specifically as being Cardiff is to imply that they are exclusive to the city, and regardless on this basis you may as well list the Usk and Ebbw as being 'Newport Valleys' etc. Can you please reconsider or else provide opening text to qualify your listing of valleys. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.132.197 (talk) 18:20, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I can see no logic at all in the way that 'Cardiff Valleys' is used in this article. If it is intended to include all the valleys which eventually drain into the Severn Estuary in Cardiff, then it should include the Cynon, Rhondda and Aber Valleys; if it is intended to include only those which actually reach as far as Cardiff then the Taff Bargoed Valley ought to be excluded. Further, if 'Cardiff Valleys' is retained then the Aber Valley seems misplaced (though as it lies between the Taff Valley and the Rhymney Valley it surely demonstrates the illogicality of the current list). In my view it would be best to lose this sub-category entirely.Ntmr (talk) 18:12, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Room for improvement, August 2009[edit]

I'm tagging a couple of sections that need additional work: 1. History - I've started to expand this, but it's still perfunctory and the narrative order is mixed up. 2. Decline - the peak output from the South Wales coalfield was in 1913, the Valleys were in serious trouble in the 20s and 30s, and pits closed throughout the post-war era. However, as currently written this attributes undue weight to WW2 and in particular the pit closures of the 1980s. 3. Culture - completely unreferenced and notably lacking in coverage of religion. We're also missing something on physical geography and environment. Pondle (talk) 23:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

You're doing a good job so far. I'll have a go at the transport section - expand and find references. Welshleprechaun (talk) 12:44, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the transport section is already comprehensive, although it lacks detail on certain roads and bus services to places other than Cardiff (important in the more westerly and easterly valleys). We want to avoid it becoming a timetable or travel guide though. Pondle (talk) 13:16, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

A bit more information[edit]

I'm not a wiki member and I'm not at all au fait with the standards so I thought I'd post this here for someone else to find sources for and incorporate into the article. Sorry if this is the wrong way to do it!

The industry expanded because all the raw materials for making iron (ie. iron ore, coal and limestone) were locally available. Due to the hills and valleys, the coal was easy to mine as the seams were not far beneath the valleys. Also, the British Empire provided a guaranteed market.

The industry declined becuase modern machinery couldn't be introduced (seams too thin) and I believe the government subsidised its introduction elsewhere, meaning that coal production in the area was inefficient. The fall of the British Empire also meant that South Wales had to compete with other countries who were often cheaper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.237.72 (talk) 19:32, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Category[edit]

A recent change removed the article from Category:Geography of Wales, as it was already in Category:Valleys of Wales, itself a subcategory of Category:Geography of Wales, as it shouldn't be in both categories at the same time. My view is that of the two categories it would be more appropriate in Category:Geography of Wales. Thoughts? Daicaregos (talk) 07:18, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Another suggestion has been made: Category:Regions of Wales., which would be my preference. Daicaregos (talk) 09:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:10, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Fine with me too.--Pondle (talk) 17:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Done. Daicaregos (talk) 19:35, 8 August 2010 (UTC)