Talk:Sting (percussion)

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Renamed article[edit]

"Sting(percussion)" is now "Sting (percussion)". It's as simple as that. :P I left the "this article needs to be wikified" tag because, honestly, I'm a noob, and I don't know whether this article fits the other guidelines. OneofThem

Why does "bu-bumKSH" link to "Failure"? --24.46.164.83 07:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Is it just me, or is the Example attached to this article missing a note? 68.209.116.39 (talk) 16:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

The audio example that was there [1] doesn't sound all that hot on my computer speakers but it's a lot simpler than the notation example which was itself labelled basic, which is probably confusing... I've had a go at making it a bit more obvious that the two are supposed to be different. Andrewa (talk) 21:27, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Title of article needs a source[edit]

The fact this form of permission is universally known as a rimshot (and indeed I went to the rimshot article and was puzzled why there wasn't any information about it; the "See also" link to "Sting" didn't indicate an alternate definition) suggests this article needs sourcing to verify why it's called "Sting" and not part of the "Rimshot" article. 70.72.211.35 (talk) 22:21, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

The article certainly needs sources generally! I've never heard this called a rimshot, however a rimshot can be used as a sting (as can a single cymbal crash... perhaps more commonly). I suspect that the editors who added this were misinterpretting their sources, but as they didn't provide any it's hard to say.
I've removed , often referred to as a rimshot because it's both unsourced and, in my view, inaccurate. Andrewa (talk) 16:00, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

PROD[edit]

Removed the PROD, the article is already (barely) more than a dicdef. And there is scope for expansion. Andrewa (talk) 16:00, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Difficult to substantiate its usage online owing to the prominence of several musicians with the nickname Sting. I note that wikt:sting reads in part 6. A short percussive phrase played by a drummer to accent the punchline in a comedy show. Andrewa (talk) 02:55, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

See http://www.tomscott.com/cliff/ for an interesting take on the term, which pretty much assumes it's in common usage. As it is.

See also Sting (musical phrase) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sting (musical phrase).

And now see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sting (percussion). Some good links there now.

There's definitely lots of work to do... possible merge with Sting (musical phrase), sources, and sorting out the confusion with rim shot... I've never heard a sting called a rim shot, nor ever heard a rim shot used alone as a sting as far as I can remember... it doesn't sound like an effective or professional one to me.

(A short crush roll (another redlink... work to do everywhere) ending in a rim shot, yes, that's a very effective sting and part of every working drummer's basic toolkit in my experience. My students certainly learn it! Personally I would normally add a similtaneous kick and cymbal choke to the rimshot for added effect... the kick partially also to provide support for your back, a karate technique that every drummer should learn if they don't want to retire early with back pain, and the choke partly for visual effect, it looks really impressive to seem to use three hands at once and the single-hand choke is not nearly as difficult as it looks.)

But if rim shot is really used to mean sting, then we should report that. I still think it's a bit of folklore. My bet is that people who use this term are trying to show how much they know about drumming, and are succeeding in a way by revealing that they know very little. But I could be wrong.

But the first job is to get the AfD out of the way, so we don't actually go backwards... Andrewa (talk) 13:05, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

The AfD seems likely to fail, so I've put some work into the format of the article. Andrewa (talk) 21:17, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
And fail it did, no support at all for deletion, and some good humour shown... except by the nom [2]. Andrewa (talk) 12:16, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Related articles[edit]

It's been suggested at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sting (percussion) that this article might be merged with rimshot. While I think that particular suggestion is actually a step backwards (see http://soundandthefoley.com/2013/04/10/of-stings-and-rimshots/ for some of why) there may well be room for a merge or two in the general area or even some new stubs, see sting (disambiguation), rimshot (disambiguation), talk:rimshot (disambiguation)#Other meanings, wikt:rimshot and wikt:sting. Some particularly interesting articles:

  • Sting (musical phrase) describes a broader but more esoteric use of the term sting, broader in that it's not just percussion and esoteric in that the subject area is probably less often discussed. But it's the more obvious possible merge for this particular article, and was also suggested as such in the AfD discussion [3]. And it also survived an AfD of its own a year and a bit ago, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sting (musical phrase).
  • Stab (music) is an even broader term.
  • Rimshot (broadcasting) describes an unrelated concept, but well to be aware of it as this other usage is yet another reason not to call a sting played on percussion a rimshot. Not that it's Wikipedia's job to fix English usage, just the opposite, we follow the usage we find in reliable sources, disambiguating and using hatnotes where we need to resolve the ambiguities this sometimes causes. Just well to be aware of the controversy and the consequent need for caution.

There may well be other relevant articles out there. I note this particular article is listed above as being of particular interest to the Percussion and Comedy WikiProjects. That's this article's current focus as I understand it, and also the most common meaning of sting in the context of musical performance. Andrewa (talk) 13:53, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Refs needed[edit]

I removed[4] three citations in the article just now. Two of them don't actually confirm the statements they were supposed to support and one was a circular reference back to this article. There's still actually no reliable sources to confirm the very definition of a sting.

Peter Isotalo 19:49, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

rimshot[edit]

Fact is that "rimshot" for the sting is in general usage. Fact is also that our mission isn't to correct the unwashed masses on language, since whatever people say is per definition correct. or at the very least, Wikipedia's mission doesn't including telling people they're using language wrong.

I have restructured the passage about the rimshot. Explaining to people that in percussion, rimshot means something else, is fine, good even. Telling people that they're wrong when they call a sting a rimshot, however, is a) doomed to fail b) condescending c) unfriendly, and d) all of the above. Inform, don't lecture, and all that.

Hope you have a nice day. CapnZapp (talk) 08:42, 16 August 2014 (UTC)