Talk:Subaltern (postcolonialism)

Page history note

The article subaltern used to contain information about both the military rank and the term in postcolonialism. I have undeleted the early history to subaltern so authors can be properly attributed. I also merged the history of Talk:Subaltern. Graham87 01:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I, Kevin Lohman, did some editing today, December 13, 2011. I reworked the "Thesis" and "Development Discourse" sections just a little. I did not delete any information in these sections. I simply reordered them slightly so that they would be less of a random, general overview and more of a fluid explanation of the concept of Subaltern studies. I added a section entitled, "Engaging the Voice of the Subaltern". I did this because I believe that currently in historical scholarship, the Voice of the Subaltern is an abstract area of the postcolonialism academia. I think that by including an example of a Subaltern's voice, and by identifying the filters and concepts in her speech, this may help further solidify the idea of the Subaltern voice, and help propel it closer to mainstream studies, allowing more people to recognize this valuable field of history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kloh26 (talk • contribs) 16:28, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Proper encyclopedia style? =

I am not an expert on theorisation of the "subaltern". But parts of this page, while interesting, referenced and well-written, looks like original work to me, especially the "voices of the subaltern". Perhaps it is just a matter of style, I have not consulted the quoted references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Postdeborinite (talk • contribs) 13:30, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

It seems that way to me too. The article would profit from more editors. 84.226.185.221 (talk) 12:43, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

The last section of the article ("Development Discourse") is not nearly up to the standard of the rest. The three paragraphs are not clearly written, but all seem to be describing theses of a single recent book. The point of that section seems to be to show one application of subaltern studies. If so, maybe the section could be titled something like "Applications and extensions". Then the description of development discourse could be limited to something like this: "Recent work on development discourse has drawn on subaltern studies to critique the language of contemporary economic and policy discussions of development and modernization," perhaps still citing that Lawson book. --Samething (talk) 04:28, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Subaltern in logic

Actually, contrary to statements made on both this page and the page on the military rank, subaltern did not originate as a military term. It can have several interrelated meanings in the context of logic, e.g. Aristotelian logic- see http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/subaltern. This would seem to predate either postcolonial usage or the British military usage. The relation between the use in logic- an older form of scholarly discourse- and the use in postcolonial theory should be explored.Amdurbin (talk) 17:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Postcolonial usage is from Gramsci sometime after 1920, I suppose. He wrote in Italian. But the meaning as "inferior status person", at least in English, is quite old. Also a meaning of a genus within a genus in taxonomy. These meanings and the officer meaning go back to around 1600 or 1500 according to the OED online. The meaning in logic is attested in Latin back to the 4th century, says OED.

Here is some pre-English etymology from OED. But the full entry is much longer and quite interesting.

Etymology: < post-classical Latin subalternus (in logic) subordinate (4th cent.), designating a genus which is itself a species of a higher genus (1512 or earlier), designating a species which is also a genus (1523 or earlier), (with reference to rank) subordinate (from 12th cent. in British and continental sources) < classical Latin sub- sub- prefix + alternus altern adj. Compare Middle French, French subalterne subordinate, lower in a hierarchy (c1430; 1466 as noun), Spanish subalterno (13th cent.), Italian subalterno (late 15th cent.). 129.132.209.204 (talk) 13:06, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Layout

The article header is longer than the actual contents of the page. Can somebody please rectify this? I am struggling myself, but I know that there has been written on the subaltern as of present. Maybe we could try add that in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.210.160.119 (talk) 18:50, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Singular or Plural

The article is not currently consistent in its treatment of the term. The opening says that it refers to "the person who is" but later the article says the term "describes the lower classes and the social groups..." I think that it is better to have it refer to the collective in the context of the article rather than the individual. Are there any objections to me updating the article accordingly? —Zujine|talk 06:28, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

See also example

Is the Conquest of the Planet of the Apes (1972) reference even appropriate? What edification about the body of postcolonial thought does the study of that film provide? It's ironic in light of the bell hooks' quote.

A reply to silly ignorance, its discontents, and knee-jerk deletions

The Conquest of the Planet of the Apes example in the "See Also" section is appropriate, because it is a story specifically about the Subaltern. View it, and pay attention to the dialogues describing and justifying simian subjugation. Because, outside of the didactic filmsBattle of Algiers (1966) and Burn! (1969), by Gillo Pontecorvo, a direct, but non-didactic explanation, demonstration, and application of the theory of colonialism (hence of post-colonial theory) is unavailable. Moreover, please, get it right, use and address the correct film title, and film story. Unilateral deletion, without explanation, indicates ignorance of the post-colonial subject and the source. Not everything is surface.

Best regards,

Mhazard9 (talk) 19:00, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I guess the Apes departed despite your best arguments against Silly Ignorance. 12:41, 21 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.226.185.221 (talk)

See also

Mandala (political model)

• The mandala is a model for describing the patterns of diffuse political power distributed among Mueang or Kedatuan (principalities) in early Southeast Asian history, when local power was more important. The concept of a mandala counteracts modern tendencies to look for unified political power, i.e., the power of large kingdoms and nation states of later history — an inadvertent byproduct of 15th-century advances in map-making technologies.

—Pawyilee (talk) 17:15, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Indopug for such a definitive article. This is informative and at least apparently authentic. However, I want to ask a question. What is the difference between the concepts of 'subaltern population' and 'proletarian population'? A discussion on this could be very interesting. Please reply if you think I deserve to be replied. Arghyan Opinions (talk) 10:27, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Proletarian suggests mid-century thought and evokes factories, labors, workers. Subaltern gives more weight to cultural factors and cultural representation. Subaltern is about colonial relations, slavery, untouchables, culturally enforced social status, gender relations, more than economic relations within a capitalist society. Subaltern could apply throughout history and to non-capitalist societies whereas proletariat only makes sense after the industrial revolution. 84.226.185.221 (talk) 12:38, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Owen 'Alik Shahadah

A discussion thread about the reliability and notability of this author and his pages is taking place at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Owen 'Alik Shahadah, please comment there so we can get a final consensus. Rupert Loup (talk) 12:03, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Criticism

Unlike many other political ideology wikipedia pages, there's nothing on criticism. Should there be a section on how many scholars reject this as a valid category? The works of Vivek Chibber in particular are pretty relevant. As presented, the article appears a bit biased, when in the social sciences this idea is often very marginal and not taken seriously. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreadunicorn (talk • contribs) 03:56, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

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