Talk:Suomi KP/-31

Untitled

"And the patents were copied, not just "because I think it is a look-a-like" Pudeo

"There are some similarities between the KP/-31 and PPSh -41 such as magazine capacity, cyclic rate of fire and the wooden buttstock. The Finnish gun is, however, a first generation submachine gun while the PPSh is a typical second generation submachine gun: Mass-produced for a massive army, and thus possessing neither quickly detachable barrel nor some other luxuries such as versatility with very slight - if any - alteration of the receiver mechanism." [1]

PPSh-41 is not copy of Suomi, which is easy to notice with little researche.

File:PPD 34.jpg

PPD 34 [2] is probably the gun which you are thinking.

And why did you revert also all the typos...? Please correct those. --81.197.218.62 18:16, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, I reverted.--81.197.218.62 19:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

If anything, the KP/-31 is more closely related to the PPD-40, and not the later PPSh. Koalorka (talk) 13:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

M-31?

Where does the name "M-31" for this article come from? In the article, the gun is consistently called "KP/-31". Which is correct? Redxiv 02:54, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

i think that m/31 means malli/31, in english it means model/31. suomi M/31 KP/-31 are official "names" for Suomi KP M/31 --193.229.159.15 20:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I think we should use the original Finnish designation, which is somewhat odd but most accurate. "Suomi KP/-31". Koalorka (talk) 13:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Origins

In 1932 or 1933 a certain Finnish spy working for the Soviets managed to steal blueprints for the Suomi M/31 and take them to the USSR. Yes, the PPSh-41 is indeed largely a poor copy of the Suomi M/31. Its earlier versions were also copies of the Suomi M/31, based on the blueprints that the USSR received from her Finnish spy. 84.248.10.87 (talk) 20:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

• The PPD was designed in 1930-1931. It was initially a retarded-blowback weapon with it's bolt delayed by rotation (system somewhat similar to the Beretta Model 1918), but later converted into direct blowback for ease of production. There no common or even resembling parts in PPD / PPSh and the Suomi. I removed the statemtnt that "many" (what ? name what exactly, because I, being very familiar with the internals of all three guns, can name NO SINGLE feature) features were "copied" because the only thing that was realy copied from the Suomi was it's drum magazine, use of which in the PPD dates back to 1939 and was introduced during the Winter war, obviously under impression of the Suomi. But nothing else. The only common thing is the direct blowback principle, but it's ridiculous to say that some gun "copied" any features of any other gun just because they us direct blowback ! The next thing to say, actually, would be that "manyfeatures" of the Suomi were itself copied from the MP34 because, for example, their bolts look almost EXACTLY identicall, try to google the pictures. But I believe that's just not the right way to go for an encyclopedic article.

Right now I have cross-sections of the Suomi, the PPD and the PPSh. Unfortunately he PPD drawing is of poor quality, but even this is enough to see multiple differences, like - separate firing pin with hammer (like in early Thompsons, and unlike the Suomi which had fixed firing pin). Theese are just too different, independent designs. It would be safer to say that "many features" of both the Suomi and PPD could be copied from the German MP's (MP18 & 28).

And about that "spy" theory, it's absolutely ridiculous - first, Suomi drawings were not secret, the gun was patented in the US in 1931, and the pictures of it's internals were available for everyone. And second, and ore importatnt actually, is the fact that not that there was any need for this to build anything Suomi-like, because the system and action of the gun was rather primitive (the same thing is correct for any of the early SMG), and well-known long before the Soumi (at least since 1918 when the MP18 was designed). The only un-orthodox feature of the Soumi was it's vacuum "bolt-slower" in the rear portion of the reciever, but actually it was absolutely unique for this gun (something rather similar was used by the Germans in their MP38/40 but that was entirelly another system, which used compressed air rather then vacuum); needless to say that neither the PPD, nor the PPSh used this feature. In all other aspects, the Soumi was a typical "tube-gun" like the German MP's, British Sten and so on. With no innovative features or secrets to be copied, actually. Just a solidly designed and built weapon that used mostly well-known design principles. 95.79.222.226 (talk) 21:29, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Russian Copy

There actually was a Russian copy, the KF-42 SMG (Karelo-Finski 1942). It was chambered for 7.62x25 TT rounds and was made in very small numbers in Leningrad during the siege. This actually reinforces the spy theory in which the Finnish plans were delivered to the Soviets. The Soviets probably found the "Suomi" unsuitable for mass production and the plans were stored in Leningrad. During the siege they were probably dug out and few guns built. My theory.

74.51.57.78 (talk) 19:05, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Suomi KP-31 in Slovakia

While the source linked in the article claims a Slovakian soldier holds this submachine gun I think it looks more like a PPD-40 since he holds on to a wooden handguard in front of the magazine which is something the PPD-40 has but the Suomi does not. It is likely a PPD-40 was captured from the Soviets. This source doesn't mention any Soumi KP-31 sold to Slovakia either. [3]https://jaegerplatoon.net/MACHINEPISTOLS1.htm 31.208.184.195 (talk) 14:36, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

"konepistooli"

I think this is "machine-pistol", no? "Submachine gun" is possibly more modern, but "machine-pistol" is not inaccurate. FOARP (talk) 12:31, 16 September 2024 (UTC)