Talk:The Gallery, London

copyrighted material

A contributor claims to own the copyright to the material used in the article. [1] Vexations (talk) 20:47, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Vexations, I did a google book search on the opening sentences in each paragraph in the History section. Almost every one matched with Projects Between Artists by Philip James, published in 2001. Although the publisher is Cv/Visual Arts Research (which the editor claims to represent), I don't think we can just take an editor's word for it that they own the copyright and have the authority to relinquish it to Wikipedia. Schazjmd (talk) 17:45, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Schazjmd, that's correct, anyone could claim to own the copyright, and I've pointed out to Nj1948 that the work that is copied needs a license that is compatible with Wikipedia. Vexations (talk) 18:13, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

As it happens Projects Betwewen Artists 2001 Cv Publications was by me writing under my pen name Philip James

Here is my bio-dsata for your further reference

I originated and ran The Gallery 65a Lisson Street NW1 5DA from 1973 to 1978. I changed my name in 2002 from Nicholas James Philip Wegner to Nicholas Philip James to simplify my publishing and journalist activities. I own the copyright to material on The Gallery and further projects with contractual agreements with other artists: Vaughan Grylls, Rita Donagh and the Estate of John Latham (The John Latham Foundation. Your enquirer can check the Cv/VAR folder on The Gallery at: http://www.tracksdirectory.ision.co.uk/archive

Thank you Nj1946

Bio-data

Nicholas James Philip Wegner (Nicholas Philip James from 2002) born Bromley Kent November 1948. Studied painting with Keith Vaughan and Frank Auerbach at the Slade School UCL 1966-70, printmaking with Stanle Jones at Curwen Press and History of Art (MA) at Kingston University. From 1973-78 he operated The Gallery 65a Lisson Street producing combine projects with Vaughan Grylls, John Latham, Stephen Willats, Tony Rothon, Gerald Newman, John A.Walker, Rita Donagh and Jonathan Miles. And the companies Hasselblad Cameras, H. Stoll and Co, Artforum Magazine NYC. From 1988-91 with Sarah Batiste he published a quarterly review Cv Journal of Art and Crafts, researching over two hundred interviews with artists and curators. He formed Cv Publications in 1992 and Cv/Visual Arts Research Archive and Editions in 1995. His studio is base at Candid Arts Trust, Angel Islington.

Nj1948 Do you understand that when you post material on Wikipedia, it is licensed for re-use by anyone to copy, distribute and transmit, and to adapt for any purpose, even commercially? Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License We take this very seriously. Vexations (talk) 21:09, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Article updates

I have decided to withdraw the article

Please remove it from your database Nj1948 Nj1948 (talk) 05:08, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

I have cleaned up the article, but I believe it passes WP:ORG. You're welcome to nominate it for deletion Nj1948 if you'd like, and the community will decide. Star Mississippi 13:27, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Ok star I’ll take a look Nj1948 Nj1948 (talk) 14:11, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Dear Star

Can you send a link to the corrected article so I can. Check it

Thanks Nj1948 Nj1948 (talk) 14:36, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

It is right here Nj1948, or you can click The Gallery (1973-78). I removed a lot of the material as it was not covered in independent, reliable sources, and the copyright issues addressed above. Please do not re add that unless you address the sourcing. Star Mississippi 15:51, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Dear Star,

Thanks I checked the entry which was composed by a friend here and this is fine. However my problem arose when I added the full history of The Gallery which moderator David moved to a draft. Apparently my citations were incorrectly formatted. If your corrected entry goes live can I reload the other paragraphs (not that long) and perhaps you might take a look. I'm new to Wiki and learning.

Thanks Nj1948

Hi @Nj1948:. The article is live. You can add content, but please be mindful of sourcing as we can't add anything from your personal knowledge, but rather what has been discussed in independent, reliable sources. This was an issue along with the format. BUt yes, please do add and Vexations and I (and others) can try to help. Star Mississippi 16:53, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Dear Star,

Yes I checked your entry which is good thanks, however it's considerably shortened my friend's entry and discarded his references which may not please him.0

I would like to provide a proper and useful history of The Gallery on WP. What I propose before adding to your entry, is to load the word doc to a subfolder on my publishing site and send you a link to look at if you'd be so kind. That will give you an idea of content with a sources listed but not formatted into the texts. I have already loaded some images to Wiki Commons.

Best wishes Nj1948

Nj1948, I think you and your friend aren't quite familiar with Wikipedia. Our goal is not to share a "proper and useful history", but rather a summary of what reliable sources have said about a topic. You don't need to upload anything to your publishing site. You can use what we call a sandbox. For example User:Nj1948/sandbox/The Gallery (1973-78) or put them here on the talk page under a new section called ==Proposed additions==. This also happens to be best practices for folks such as yourself who are connected with the subject. Does that help? Star Mississippi 18:18, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes thanks it does

I’ll send additional to the sandbox and see what the WO community makes of it Nj1948 Nj1948 (talk) 18:33, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Dear Star

Proposed additions to The Gallery 1973-78 are loaded to the listed sandbox Entries include references for each section

Thanks NJ1948

Thank you, Nj1948. At a glance , it looks like there might be some possible additions, but the sourcing and tone remain an issue as we cannot use letters to the editor or text such as I remember the time with great nostalgia Nicholas Logsdail, Chairman the Lisson Gallery which is not independent. Will see what we can incorporate and thansk so much for your help. Star Mississippi 18:40, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Dear Star

Ok that’s fine

Take out the afterwords

As you gather my problem is incorporating the citations in the correct WP format

Your assistance I. This regard is much appreciated

Nj1958 Nj1948 (talk) 19:02, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

A quick note: IMO Nicholas Logsdail is an independent source. He's the owner-founder of the Lisson Gallery, not The Gallery. Vexations (talk) 19:32, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

That’s correct V important Would not be good to confuse the two galleries

Nicholas Logsdail founded the Lisson Gallery in 1967 at 57 Bell Street Nicholas Wegner founded The Gallery 65a Liston Street in 1973 Nj1948 Nj1948 (talk) 20:17, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Correct, Vexations and Nj1948, however it isn't clear to me where his recollections were recorded. I don't think a letter to the editor would work, but I'll look into this when I have some more time, likely at the weekend as there is probably some expansion possible. Star Mississippi 20:33, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

My personal recollection was that Nick Serota emailed that comment on receiving a copy of Projects Between Artidts P.Janes 2001 He would not comment otherwise on the operation of The Gallery though was reasonably friendly during the exhibitions 1973-78

Comments by Nicholas Serota and Anthony d’Offay were in letters now held in Cv/VAR Archive Nj1948 (talk) 21:50, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Nj1948. A private email would not be an acceptable source for our needs, and I'm not sure about unpublished letters. Will look into this. Thanks for all your help. Star Mississippi 02:12, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for helping

Nj1948 (talk) 06:12, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Correcting above

Nicholas Logsdail not Nicholas Serota emailed the comment I remember the time..

Nicholas Serota’s letter was published with permission in Depart From Zero 1987 Nj1948 (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Dear Star,

Any further progress integrating the additional entries in sand box to The Gallery 1973-78

Bests Nj1948

Not yet Nj1948 as I'm trying to match up the info with sourcing so that we can include it. Hope to make more progress soon. Star Mississippi 02:10, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Potential sources

Dear Star,

Thanks for this

Here are further accredited sources found related to entries for The Gallery 1973-78

Bests Nj1948

Beginnings of The Gallery

• Paul Martin News and Notes Studio International July 1973
• Richard Cork ‘Cook’s not so grand tour’ Evening Standard July 19 1973
• Roland Miller ‘Three Sorts of Gallery, Three Sorts of Art’ Time Out September 21-27 1973 p29

• Contemporary Art 1974
• John A.Walker ‘Contemporary Art’ Flash Art 48/49 October/November 1974 p37

Projects Between Artists

• John Latham Time And Destiny Rosetta Brooks, catalogue of retrospective Stadtische Kunsthalle Duesseldorf 1975
• John Latham Work In Progress Terry Measham, catalogue Tate Gallery July 1976
• Caroline Tisdall ‘The Gallery: John Latham’ The Guardian December 5 1974 p10
• Rosetta Brooks ‘John Latham’ Studio International 189 (973) January/February 1975 p16 (re-view section)
• Pierre Rouve ‘To See, To Think’ Arts Review 27 (3) February 7 1975 p67
• Caroline Tisdall ‘Mixed Shows’ The Guardian March 25 1975 p10

Rita Donagh

• Catherine Lampert ‘Rita Donagh’ Studio In ternational 189 (975) May/June 1975 pp240-241
• Ann Seymour ‘Gerald Newman’ Studio International 190 (976) July/August 1975 p83

Stephen Willats

• Richard Cork ‘Nice To Meta You’ Evening Standard October 16 1975 p22

• Caroline Tisdall ‘Flag Role’ The Guardian February 10 1976 p10
• John A. Walker ‘Art Forum/Art Press’ Studio International May 1976

John Latham 1978

• Edward Lucie Smith ‘Things We Won’t See’ Evening Standard June 1st 1978

John A. Walker ‘A Short History of The Gallery’ 1977

• ‘The Gallery’ and ‘Depart From Zero’ And Magazine December 1987
• ‘Depart From Zero: development of The Gallery London’
• The Gallery Trust Publications London, November 1987

Thank you, these are super helpful. You'll see I also copied them to the draft so I can work from them there. More to come. Thanks again Nj1948 Star Mississippi 12:33, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Article Updates

Hello Star

Is there any progress integrating further entries in the sandbox to 'The Gallery 1973-78'

Best wishes Nj1948

Dear Star

Are the additional entries in the sandbox ok to integrate in the article of The Gallery

Do you need any other details

Best Nj1948 Nj1948 (talk) 06:11, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Apologies Nj1948, I have not yet had time to work on this. You're welcome to make an edit request if it's time sensitive. Star Mississippi 13:52, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry only just picked up this message Take the time you need

No rush

All bests Nj1948 Nj1948 (talk) 11:47, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Dear Star,

Added some images for integration in the article The Gallery 1973-78, others are posted to Wiki Commons.

Removed an image 'Global Routes'1976 following comment from Wiki community.

Thanks Nj1948

Dear Star,

My additional entries to the article The Gallery 1973-78 have been declined. The sources provided are proven independent published reviews, that is the total documentary resource for the subject.

Will you be continuing your work on the article or should it be shelved now

Bests Nj1948

I missed that your entries were declined. I'll be honest, I hadn't been able to find the necessary sourcing to meet Wikipedia guidelines to include the material yet. I think it's a longer term process and I understand if you're not willing or able to wait. Happy to delete the sandbox if you'd prefer to go that route. The article itself can remain. Just let me know Star Mississippi 00:18, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Ahh, I see what happened Nj1948. Pinging Theroadislong to this conversation as I'm not sure they realize this wasn't meant to be a standalone, but rather a sandbox to work on content to potentially be added to this article. My concerns remain about the sourcing, but I don't think it's an unsolvable issue given time. Star Mississippi 00:23, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello Star,00

Got your message thank you I have made a further edit to the article The Gallery 1973-78 Adding an introduction and clearly identified notes and references from reliable sources.

I removed end passages of bio-data which exist already in Wikipedia.0

Hope this works

Nj1948

Dear Star,

Thank you for your attention

The texts and images were submitted as d as additional entries designed to expand the article The Gallery 1973-78, they were not submitted as a stand alone article.

The citations were sourced from reliable sources: books, journals, newspapers and the web.

If there were errors in the structure of the additional entries a simple bulleted list of what is acceptable in expanded entries to Wikipedia will be sufficient to correct the format.

Nj1948

Please read the instructions you have been given "you can submit suggestions on the article's talk page with the {{request edit}} template and a reliable source." and please remember to sign your posts with 4 tildes. Theroadislong (talk) 13:58, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Proposed Content

Again Nj1948... please read the instructions you have been given "you can submit suggestions on the article's talk page with the {{request edit}} template, you have not done this. Theroadislong (talk) 07:54, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Hello I am trying to follow your guidelines which are not clear

I could not find requestvedifit in the drop down ttalj menu

I will look again

Nh1947 Nj1948 (talk) 08:17, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Dear Editor

I have revisited the Talk drop down tab on the article page of The Gallery 1973-78 and cannot find any check box titled 'request edit'. I am seeking to load additional entries to expand the piece.

Please can you give me a clear step by step instruction where I should go to load the prepared texts which include citations from reliable sources, wiki-page links and selected images

Send screen shots if possible

Thank you

Nj1948

Details are in the link posted above...{{request edit}} Theroadislong (talk) 14:42, 9 September 2021 (UTC)