Talk:The Hitchers (band)

This article was nominated for deletion on 26 December 2006. The result of the discussion was Keep.

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Untitled

I have re-created the disambiguation page and references to "The Hitchers" from Teesside, as there is a significant potential for confusion as the Teeside Hitchers have an album for sale on Amazon, and are releasing another album in January. Cpmartin 12:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If The Hitchers (band from Teesside) is to be deleted, then this page should be deleted too, as this band does not count as noteworthy as it does not have "multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble". If The Hitchers (band from Teesside) is deleted, I will move to have this page deleted as well, as the two bands are no less noteworthy than each other. Cpmartin 10:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not delete this article. There appears to be some confusion with this band (from Ireland and in existence since 1989) and a band in the UK who are illegally operating under the same name; ‘The Hitchers’. I have added more release information and a link to the BBC John Peel Hitchers page and an NME review to help assuage any doubt as to the bone fides of the band. Airwave 14:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. The strength of the above statements suggests strong personal feeling. I would be very interested to know exactly which law there is that states two bands can't have the same name. Cpmartin 15:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As you removed the PROD tag, this counts as contesting the deletion. I have therefore added an AFD tag. Let's see what happens next. Cpmartin 16:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality

This page looks like it was written by a band member, and there are no verifiable links to back-up any of the statements in the "History" section. The end of this section is practically a gig list, and the last statement is a rumour generator placed by a band member to try and generate excitement. Simple mentions of "fantastic reviews" that are not backed-up cannot count as verifiable unless someone can show otherwise. This also goes for the "Limerick Event Guide" that is quoted, which could easily have been written by the band themselves, and cannot count as verifiable. Cpmartin 10:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, some of the language and entries are rather 'fluffy', I will edit the less encyclopedic statements and make them 'drier'. I am not a member of this band. Airwave 14:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not a member of the band eh? Methinks he doth protest too much. Especially when he uses the word "illegal" so quickly... As Airwave appears to be the creator of this page, and has edited little else according to his contributions list, I have a strong suspicion from the way it is written that he at least has a strong personal connection with the band. Cpmartin 15:32, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have worked with this band, amongst others, over the years as a sound engineer in Xeric studios, Limerick. The name, 'The Hitchers', is copyright and is a trademark like in any other business. Whether or not the facts represented in the article can be considered vain or not is of no consequence, as they are simply facts. My intention with this article was to recount the exploits of what I consider to be a noteworthy band. With respect, please do not make this a personal issue. I do not assume to know you and I regard being accused a liar as rather offensive. Airwave 15:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You have just admitted your personal connection with the band, so my suggestion was correct. Moreover, the use of the name is not illegal, as copyright and trademark are civil matters that would have to be decided in court, which as far as I know has never happened in this case. The consideration of the band's locations in different countries, and the times they started using the names in said (and other) countries would have to be taken into account before determining who violated the copyright of whom, and where. Last time I checked, Wikipedia did not accept facts that were "simply facts" unless they are verifiable. I maintain that there is a large quantity of unreferenced material and that the band are no more or less noteworthy than The Hitchers from Teesside. Cpmartin 16:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to know why are you attacking this article (and me) in such an agressive manner. I know of nothing that I have done to personally offend you and warrant this behaviour. Airwave 17:06, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am not attacking the article aggressively, and I am not attacking you at all. I am pointing out your association with the band. Anyway, that isn't relevant, what matters is the lack of notability, and lack of verifiable sources. This is why I nominated the article for deletion. Most statements are still unverified by sources, and I don't see the band matching the criteria for being notable. This is discussed on the AFD page. Cpmartin 18:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It would be helpful if you could make a list of the claims you want verified ('Limerick Event Guide' and Bob Geldof aside), then I can ask the band to provide me with the relevant info.Airwave 22:52, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. The only reason offered for opposing is potential confusion with the Rutger Hauer movie, but the dab notice at the top of the page should be sufficient, and at least not any worse than the previous status quo, in which The Hitchers was already a redirect to the band page. -GTBacchus^(talk) 10:25, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The Hitchers (band from Limerick) → The Hitchers — This page (The Hitchers) originally contained the article now at The Hitchers (band from Limerick). Another article was created, "The Hitchers (band from Teeside)", and "The Hitchers" changed to a disambig between the two. The Teeside band article was successfully prodded, and the Limerick band article survived an AfD. The information on the Teeside band has been merged with the Limerick band article. I think that it would be more sensible to rename the only current article ("band from Limerick") back to "The Hitchers", but we need to retain the edit history, and we can't do a move while the redirect exists. As I see it, the ideal state of things will be to have the article at The Hitchers with the edit history that's now at "band from Limerick", with "band from Limerick" and perhaps "band from Teeside" as redirects. Tevildo 03:28, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Add # '''Support''' or # '''Oppose''' on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

Survey - Support votes

Support as nominator. Tevildo 03:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support, added Dab template removes any potential confusion. Airwave 10:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support per Airwave, not that confusing anymore with the movies. Patstuart^talk|edits 00:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey - Oppose votes

Oppose because of how close it is to The Hitcher movies. I agree that the current title sucks but why not move it to The Hitchers (band)? 205.157.110.11 04:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

On the potential confusion with The Hitcher, we can always add a suitable dab template. The Hitchers (band) implies that there's something else called "The Hitchers" which isn't a band - that doesn't apply here. Tevildo 04:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dab template added. Tevildo 04:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In my newspaper listing on upcoming movies they have the movie (mistakenly) listed as The Hitchers--and this is a major metropolitan newspaper with a copy edit staff. There is going to be confusion between the singular/plural usage. The movie series is way more notable then the band so you are going to have more people searching for it. The band should some disambiguation to it. 205.157.110.11 02:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone doing a search on "The Hitchers", as things stand, will get this page ("band from Limerick") via the redirect. The proposed move will maintain the status quo, and I'm not sure what the alternative would be - turn "The Hitchers" back into a dab, but between the band and the movie? But the movie isn't called "The Hitchers"; only the two bands are. Tevildo 03:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That might not be a bad shake. There are quite a few DAB pages that include alternate spellings as well as single/plural versions. That would certainly be the most clear. 205.157.110.11 04:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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