Talk:Thomas Livingston

A fact from Thomas Livingston appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 30 November 2006. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that due to a "defect of birth", Thomas Livingston was forced to receive a papal dispensation to continue working in the church?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2006/November.

Wikipedia

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Scotland Low‑importance

	Scotland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scotland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Scotland and Scotland-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ScotlandWikipedia:WikiProject ScotlandTemplate:WikiProject ScotlandScotland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

defect of birth[edit]

This is a few centuries later than what I know about, but my sense was that defect of birth refered to illegitamacy. In the Church, bastards had to get dispensations or be legitimized in order to hold Holy Orders (i.e., be Ordained). And, what do you know, this guy is a bastard. Does anyone have any specific knowledge that defect of birth actually came to mean a birth defect?

This is true. Illegitimacy was considered an "irregularity" and was thus a canonical impediment to Ordination. There is a good article in the Catholic Encyclopedia (Vol. VIII, 1910) on "Irregularity" which speaks specifically about this. See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08170a.htm, and then look under the heading "Defect of Birth.":

"Defect of Birth

"In primitive times illegitimacy was no bar to ordination. In 655 the Ninth Council of Toledo decreed that illegitimate sons of clerics in major orders should be held as serfs of the Church and not be admitted to Holy orders unless first manumitted by the bishop. In the ninth and tenth centuries those born of violated virgins or of incest began to be held as irregular. Various canons were also formed concerning different details of illegitimacy, until finally a general prohibition against all spurious children being admitted to orders was enacted, on the ground that the stain of birth would be a stain on the sacred ministry. At present, therefore, all illegitimate persons are irregular unless they have been legitimated by the subsequent marriage of their parents or by profession in a religious order or by papal rescript. Foundlings of unknown parentage should receive conditional dispensation. Those also are held to be irregular who, though sprung from valid marriage, were born while their parents were bound by solemn vow or after the reception of Sacred orders."

MishaPan 04:08, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this point. One of my sources appeared to imply it was his blindness. He was illegitimate after all. I'll bare this in mind in future too; there are lots of requests for dispensations regarding "defects of birth" in this era; I would have thought we were talking deformity's, limps, etc; now I know better. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 04:23, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]