Talk:Toshiyori

Benefits of the status

The article offers no explanation as to what the benefits of being a sumo toshiyori are, only that it's a coveted position. Is the status merely an honor? Do toshiyori get a vote in matters of the Japan Sumo Association? Is there a monetary benefit (a pension or stipends, for instance)? TomorrowTime (talk) 07:43, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

It not only offers status but also security. Bear in mind most ex-wrestlers have known no other life since they were 15. Outside the sumo world, they have very little, but within, they are virtually guaranteed a job with the Sumo Association until they are 65. Being a toshiyori is the only way one can coach wrestlers or run a stable. The retirement pay is significant as well: a rikishi leaving the sumo world altogether would get only a modest sum of severance pay, but those remaining as a coach get much more. The figures I have are not that up-to-date, but in 1987 a yokozuna got 8 million yen for his first tournament at that rank, plus 4 milllion yen for every yokozuna basho after that, working down to 5 million yen for a maegahira for his first top division tournament and 150,000 for each one thereafter. I'll try and work some stuff into the article when I have a moment.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:12, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for the swift response. I pretty much figured there was more than honor involved (I just know too much about Japan to buy into all the stereotypical Honor Code stuff), but I figured probably only a safe retirement with a (presumably sizeable) pension was involved. I didn't realize coaching/heya licenses were involved, although it does make sense, come to think of it. Anyway, thanks for broadening my knowledge a bit. TomorrowTime (talk) 23:05, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Rankings

Yes, I realize that this stuff partially duplicates the Japan Sumo Association article, but a) it fits much better here, and b) it's of somewhat substandard quality in the JSA article (which of course is somewhat substandard still as a whole) so it was easier to just write it from scratch than try to dress it up over there, where this level of detail probably isn't needed anyway. Zeyes (talk) 00:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

A certain amount of duplication is inevitable, but I don't see it as a big deal. This article used to be just a redirect to the glossary, so it's come a long way. I agree that the Sumo Association article needs a lot of work- the German version, written by Kukator, is much more substantial than the English one.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:38, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Availability

I seem to recall in the past that there were rarely any kabu vacant and all were being borrowed by retired rikishi waiting for a permanent one to become available. But there are no less than eight kabu currently owned by active rikishi and not being used. Does anyone know why? Was there a rule change? The article may need updating. --Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:51, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

I seem to remember something on the forum a while back reporting that the kyokai had announced it would be taking control of kabu and changes of hands (and likely borrowing?) would have to go thru them. Maybe all these vacant Kabu have come after this due to factors relating to this? I made a brief search on the forum but will take a longer look later. This could not be a factor but it's the only thing that springs to mind. FourTildes (talk) 21:23, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Here is a good start? http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29809

Ichidai-Toshiyori

The footnote to the ichidai-toshiyori mentions something about Japanese citizenship being required and that Hakuho would not qualify for such status due to his not being a citizen. There has been talk recently (back in July at least), however, about his obtaining Japanese citizenship in order to obtain toshiyori. Does this mean he would be eligible for ichidai-toshiyori status? I feel this footnote could use some clarification, but I haven't found anything to be able to correct it myself. Any thoughts? SoloOperator (talk) 21:00, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes, the only obstacle is nationality - if he takes Japanese citizenship then I imagine he would be shoo-in for receiving ichidai-toshiyori status with 39 championships.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:08, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

I will edit the footnote to reflect this information. I'd appreciate someone looking it over to make sure that it's fair. SoloOperator (talk) 21:40, 22 November 2017 (UTC)