Talk:Transilien

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Logo creation

Do people here think that the Transillien bit in the box on the far right showing the letter designation of lines be made for the Transillien?

Full list of IDF SNCF stations

Please find below an exhaustive list of all SNCF stations within the Île-de-France - or in other words, Transilien stations. This was taken directly from the RATP website with no modifications other than html tag-stripping and 'Wikification'. Hope someone finds this useful as a reference.

Achères-Grand-Cormier
Achères-Ville
Allée de la Tour-Rendez-Vous
Andrésy
Argenteuil
Asnières
Aubergenville-Elisabethville
Aulnay-sous-Bois
Auvers-sur-Oise
Bagneaux-sur-Loing
Bécon-les-Bruyères
Bellevue
Belloy-Saint-Martin
Bessancourt
Beynes
Bois-Colombes
Bois-le-Roi
Boissise-le-Roi
Boissy-l'Aillerie
Bondy
Bonnières
Boran-sur-Oise
Bouffemont Moisselles
Bougival
Bourron-Marlotte Grez
Breval
Bruyères-sur-Oise
Cergy-le-Haut
Cergy-Préfecture
Cergy-Saint-Christophe
Cernay
Chailly Boissy-le-Châtel
Champ de Courses d'Enghien
Champagne-sur-Oise
Champagne-sur-Seine
Champbenoist-Poigny
Changis-Saint-Jean
Chanteloup-lès-Vignes
Chantilly-Gouvieux
Chaponval
Chars
Chartrettes
Château-Thierry
Châtelet-Les Halles
Chauffry
Chaumont-en-Vexin
Chaville-Rive Droite
Chaville-Rive Gauche
Chelles Gournay
Chênay Gagny
Chézy-sur-Marne
Clamart
Clichy Levallois
Coignières
Colombes
Compans
Conflans-Fin d'Oise
Conflans-Sainte-Honorine
Corbeil-Essonnes
Cormeilles-en-Parisis
Coudray-Montceaux
Couilly Saint-Germain Quincy
Coulommiers
Courbevoie
Crécy-en-Brie La Chapelle
Creil
Crépy-en-Valois
Crouy-sur-Ourcq
Dammartin Juilly Saint-Mard
Deuil Montmagny
Domont
Dordives
Dreux
Ecouen Ezanville
Emerainville Pontault-Combault
Enghien-les-Bains
Epinay-Villetaneuse
Epluches
Epône Mézières
Eragny Neuville
Ermont Eaubonne
Ermont-Halte
Esbly
Essonnes-Robinson
Evry
Evry Courcouronnes
Faremoutiers Pommeuse
Ferrières-Fontenay
Fontainebleau-Avon
Fontaine-le-Port
Fontenay-le-Fleury
Franconville Plessis-Bouchard
Freinville Sevran
Frépillon
Gagny
Garancières La-Queue
Garches Marne-la-Coquette
Gare de l'Est
Gare de Lyon
Gare de Lyon (Banlieue)
Gare du Nord
Gare du Nord (Surface)
Gare Montparnasse
Gare Saint-Lazare
Gargan
Gargenville
Garges-Sarcelles
Gazeran
Gisors
Goussainville
Grand-Bourg
Gretz-Armainvilliers
Grigny-Centre
Groslay
Gros-Noyer Saint-Prix
Guerard La-Celle-sur-Morin
Herblay
Héricy
Houdan
Houilles Carrières-sur-Seine
Isles-Armentières Congis
Issou Porcheville
Jouy-sur-Morin Le-Marais
Juvisy
Juziers
La Barre-Ormesson
La Borne-Blanche
La Celle-Saint-Cloud
La Défense (Grande Arche)
La Ferté-Gaucher
La Ferté-Milon
La Ferté-sous-Jouarre
La Frette Montigny
La Garenne-Colombes
La Grande Paroisse
La Verrière
La Villeterte
L'Abbaye
Lagny-Thorigny
Le Bras-de-fer
Le Perray
Le Plessis-Belleville
Le Plessis-Chenet-IBM
Le Raincy Villemomble Montfermeil
Le Stade
Le Val d'Or
Le Vert de Maisons
Les Boullereaux Champigny
Les Champs-Forts
Les Clairières de Verneuil
Les Coquetiers
Les Essarts-le-Roi
Les Mureaux
Les Noues
Les Pavillons-sous-Bois
Les Vallées
Les Yvris Noisy-le-Grand
L'Etang-la-Ville
Liancourt-Saint-Pierre
Limay
L'Isle-Adam Parmain
Livry-sur-Seine
Lizy-sur-Ourcq
Longueville
Louveciennes
Louvres
Luzarches
Maisons-Alfort Alfortville
Maisons-Laffitte
Mantes-la-Jolie
Mantes-Station
Marchezai-Broué
Mareil-sur-Mauldre
Mareuil-sur-Ourcq
Marles-en-Brie
Marly-le-Roi
Maule
Maurecourt
Meaux
Melun
Ménerville
Mériel
Mery
Meudon
Meulan Hadricourt
Mitry Claye
Montargis
Montereau
Montfort-l'Amaury
Montgeroult Courcelles
Montigny Beauchamp
Montigny-sur-Loing
Montreuil
Montry Condé
Montsoult Maffliers
Moret Veneux-les-Sablons
Mormant
Mortcerf
Mouroux
Nangis
Nanterre-Université
Nanteuil Saacy
Nanteuil-le-Haudoin
Nemours Saint-Pierre
Neuville-Université
Nézel Aulnay
Nogent Le-Perreux
Nogent-l'Artaud-Charly
Nointel Mours
Noisy-le-Sec
Orangis Bois de l'Epine
Orgerus Behoust
Ormoy-Villiers
Orry-la-Ville Coye
Osny
Ozoir-la-Ferrière
Pantin
Paris Mont 3 Vaug.
Paris-Nord
Persan Beaumont
Pierrefitte Stains
Pierrelaye
Plaisir Grignon
Plaisir Les-Clayes
Poissy
Pont Cardinet
Pont Petit
Ponthierry Pringy
Pontoise
Port-Villez
Précy-sur-Oise
Presles Courcelles
Provins
Puteaux
Rambouillet
Ris-Orangis
Roissy-en-Brie
Rosny-Bois-Perrier
Rosny-sous-Bois
Rosny-sur-Seine
Saint-Cloud
Saint-Cyr
Saint-Denis
Sainte-Colombe-Septveilles
Saint-Fargeau
Saint-Leu-d'Esserent
Saint-Leu-La-Forêt
Saint-Mammés
Saint-Nom-la-Bretêche Forêt de Marly
Saint-Ouen-l'Aumône
Saint-Ouen-l'Aumône (Eglise)
Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines
Saint-Rémy-la-Vanne
Saint-Siméon
Santeuil Le Perchay
Sarcelles Saint-Brice
Sartrouville
Seugy
Sèvres Ville-d'Avray
Sèvres-Rive Gauche
Souppes
Stade de France-Saint-Denis
Suresnes Mont-Valérien
Survilliers-Fosses
Tacoignères Richebourg
Taverny
Thieux Nantouillet
Thomery
Thun-le-Paradis
Tournan
Trappes
Trie-Château
Triel-sur-Seine
Trilport
Us
Vaires Torcy
Val d'Argenteuil
Val de Fontenay
Valmondois
Vanves Malakoff
Vaucelles
Vaucresson
Vaux-sur-Seine
Verneuil-l'Etang
Vernouillet Verneuil
Vernou-sur-Seine
Versailles-Chantiers
Versailles-Rive Droite
Viarmes
Vigneux-sur-Seine
Villabé
Villaines
Villeneuve-Prairie
Villeneuve-Saint-Georges
Villeneuve-Triage
Villennes-sur-Seine
Villepreux Les-Clayes
Villiers Neauphle Pontchartrain
Villiers-le-Bel (Gonesse - Arnouville)
Villiers-Montbarbin
Villiers-sur-Marne Plessis-Trévise
Viroflay-Rive Droite
Viroflay-Rive Gauche
Viry-Châtillon
Vosves
Vulaines-sur-Seine Samoreau

Naming Conventions

According to the www.transilien.com website, all text references to in-Paris stations seem to be indicated as "arrêts" and ex-Paris stations (not metro lines) as "Gares". Neither one or the other description appears on plans - save for exceptions like "Gare Melun" and "Melun Gare" as these are two different stations. As for the long and short hyphen argument, I have seen no evidence of long hyphens at all - the present usage for joining nameplaces is just spaces. For proof of this you have the list above and this map taken directly from the www.transilien.com website.

BTW, since 'Transilien' appellation also covers RER lines and stops, it is not divided into 'réseaux' named for their originating station - 'Transilien' is just a general appelation for all SNCF and RER stops within the Île-de-France. There is no "Transilien Gare d'Est" réseau, but there certainly is a SNCF Gare de l'Est reseau. Have a look on the SNCF/RATP/Transilien sites themselves for proof of this. --THEPROMENADER 20:15, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No that's wrong. The Transilien appelation only covers SNCF sections of the RER network, not RATP sections. To your own personal information, RATP sections represents more than half of the RER passengers trafic. The RER is as much "invited" on the Transilien map as the RER is on the Paris metro map.

As for the difference between "arrêts" and "gares", it's exactly the same in the Paris metro. In French, "arrêt" and "station" are perfect synonymous. It is a platform where a train only temporarily stops and doesn't park. It's the case of most metro stations. However, stations like Porte Maillot on line 1 or Porte de Versailles on line 12 are actually "gares" since trains are parking there, they are not "arrêts/stations". This being said, I believe this distinction is utterly irrelevant for Wikipedia. I by the way oppose the renaming of stations article into "Gare de XXX", this appelation should be exclusive to national rails stations in order to avoid disambiguation. Metropolitan 22:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're mixing the arguments of the 'naming conventions' paragraph (map reference, SNCF) with the second 'Transilien' "divisions" paragraph - the latter (from 'BTW') had nothing to do with the first or any map, it was a reference to the www.transilien.com website - the 'Itineraries' link to the left leads only (for the time being) to the RER schedules. I don't recall saying that there is a connection between Transilien and ratp - you mean 'inner-city' RER stations? Of course these aren't covered under the apellation. Isn't the 'Transilien' service clearly defined somewhere in one of the above sites? I have yet to find it. Anyhow, it seems that both SNCF and RER stations outside Paris qualify as being 'Transilen', and I see no 'Gare du Nord' Transilen divisions (etc) on any website - but perhaps you could better inform me on this.

I see your distinction between 'gare' and 'arret' in French naming conventions - and this I know dates far back indeed. Yet simple stops outside of Paris become 'gares' on the schedules and websites I saw - I was just trying to make some sort of logic of this distinction between the two. Usage seems to vary between the transport-idf.com, sncf.com and transilien.com. As for Wiki article naming conventions: I don't have an opinion one way or another, but whatever is chosen should be well thought-out, especially in the light of avoiding future ambiguity with other 'gare' articles - and those of other countries even! THEPROMENADER 23:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No you are fully wrong on this. All the RER operated by the RATP is not part of the Transilien network. That includes most of RER A (Saint-Germain <-> Boissy-Saint-Léger - Marne-la-Vallée), and the Southern part of the RER B (Gare du Nord <-> Robinson - Saint-Rémy-lès-Chevreuse). Being inside or outside the city proper is irrelevant in this issue. Metropolitan 02:06, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. What I posted above I concluded from what I found this link on the www.transport-idf.com site - and the definition to the right of the 'Transilien' logo. You'll even note that the RER division of the Transilien services is mentioned even before those leaving SNCF stations. Also detailed there is the RER A precision you mentioned above, as well as the SNCF/Transilen jurisdictions of RER B. As for all the other RER lines (C, D, E) belong completely to the the Transilien network, even the portions within Paris. Until now I had no idea about what the RATP does or doesn't own; my 'outside Paris' comment was just a vague reference to this.

As for the Tranielien's division into 'reseaux' seen here, I have yet to see any publication or website showing it divided in this way; I would think that, because of the Transiilen RER lines, that such a division would be omissive and impossible, and it is probably for this that only SNCF lines are divided (to date) between their stations of origin. Anyhow, from here It looks as though the 'Transilien' is just a label slapped on already-existing services without changing them in the least - I am not involved in this article, but I would still like to know more about this. THEPROMENADER 08:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To answer Promenader: here ([1]) is an image from the RER, Transilien, Métro and Tram map appearing on the walls of all RER and Métro stations in Paris. It clearly shows the use of the long dash. If you pay attention next time you are in the Métro, you'll also notice the long dashes. Long dashes are dropped only when the name of the station is spelled on two lines. So you'll find either:
Villejuif – Paul Vaillant-Couturier
or:
Villejuif
Paul Vaillant-Couturier

As for the Transilien division into 6 networks, again it clearly appears on the same RER, Transilien, Métro, and Tram map as you can see it here: ([2]). Hardouin 12:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

True, the long dash is the usage on that plan. If I really wanted to nitpick I could note that, when a nameplace is divided over two lines, the short dash goes too (as in 'Saint-Germain-en-Laye"). But the real question is, as already asked above: What is the most common usage? By what I've seen in most signs, schedules and publications, it's a space, not a dash. THEPROMENADER 13:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If we were going by most common usage, there are lots of things on Wikipedia that should be renamed. By most frequent usage, we wouldn't have a Richmond upon Thames or a Roissy-en-France article, we would simply have a "Richmond" and a "Roissy" article. Here at Wikipedia we usually use official names. Hardouin 16:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your argument is non sequitur because I spoke explicitly of signs, schedules and publications. Or, in other words: references. THEPROMENADER 16:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, just pay attention to signs next time you're in the Métro, and you'll notice the long dashes. In particular, go to Place Monge station, since that's where you say you're living, and notice the signs showing Villejuif – Léo Langrange (long dash) or Aubervilliers – Pantin – Quatre Chemins (long dashes). Hardouin 18:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're just repeating yourself - by the above you just want to indicate that you know where I live? I don't see your goal in this, but you're going to get another warning on your talk page because of it. Anyhow, instead of wasting time in such endeavours and one chosen plan, have a look at many web and Rail publications and tell Wiki what the dominant French rail-company naming convention is. That way your input would be a help to discussion instead of a disruption. THEPROMENADER 20:22, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As for the Transilien network - I gave a direct link to an on-site definition of 'Transilien' just above, and there is absolutely no mention of Transilien whatsoever on the legend you indicate. THEPROMENADER 13:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's quite clear when looking at the map that the lines indicated are the Transilien lines. You're just using facile arguments now. Hardouin 16:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hold with the gratuitous and unfounded accusations please. There is no trace of Transilien logo or description in that legend. The goal here was finding a definition of 'Transilien'. I provided a referenced definition: you didn't. End of story. THEPROMENADER 16:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As appears clearly in the image above, the map is called:
"Île-de-France
RER – Transilien – Métro – Tram"

Anyway, I'm just talking to a wall. Hardouin 18:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As for the Transilien division into 6 networks, again it clearly appears on the same RER, Transilien, Métro, and Tram map as you can see it here: ([2]). Hardouin 12:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Exactly what is your goal here? Where is 'Transilien' in the legend you indicated in your phrase just above, stating which lines are Transilien and which are not? Exactly how is this a better definition 'Transilien' is than the reference I provided, and if not, why did you even mention it? Stop wasting other people's time please. THEPROMENADER 20:22, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]