Talk:Transparency meter
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Not a hoax[edit]
Though the primary name seems to be "transparency meter", there are plenty of examples of this around. Here is an example of a source that speaks transparency and clarity and haze. Other sources: [1], [2], [3], [4].
As for the person joking about creating this as a hoax: I don't understand why it would be so suspect. It seems pretty obvious to me that the degree to which a substance lets light through is something one might want to measure and that devices would exist to handle that.
I'm going to move it to Transparency meter because, as I noted, that seems to be a more common term— for this kind of apparatus, and definitely a less ambiguous term. That's because "clarity meter" is more often used to denote a device that supposedly measures mental clarity in practices such as Scientology. Largoplazo (talk) 04:00, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
Clarity Meter Separation from Transparency Meter[edit]
Due to much confusion in the industry, these pages need to be kept separate. Clarity testing is being lumped into other Transparency testing, and causing error in testing. It is the responsibility of those in the scientific field to NOT help perpetuate misinformation. This is why I have reopened this page.
Please add links, please add ACCURATE information. BUT DO NOT forward this page to Transparency meter.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Chucklagoon (talk • contribs)
- @Chucklagoon:, you've only referenced your claim that the two are separate using the landing pages of two company websites of the same company: www.transparencymeasurement.com and www.zebedee.com. The first page does not distinguish between the two:
In this method an old Transparency / Clarity Meter is compaired to the new Transparency / Carity Meter and some confusion has occurred because the name is similar to a present day company that manufactures a Haze Type Instrument.[1]
- The second page doesn't have anything to say on the subject, apart from a product entry which reads:
Zebedee® CL-100 Clarity Meter is an instrument created to measure the transparency of plastic film, sheeting, glass, plexiglass, and wherever distinctness of image is important.[2]
- If there are to be two separate articles, then we must first WP:Verify that they are on separate subjects, using WP:Reliable, WP:Secondary sources. But even if we can establish that there actually is a difference, then the difference must be notable enough to warrant a separate article. Minor variants of a technology don't always have separate articles on Wikipedia. Thanks, The Mighty Glen (talk) 09:20, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- I am in the process of adding sources. They are not 'minor variants of a technology.' This is like discussing diodes. A Ziener diode is a diode, but it's so different that it deserves a separate page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chucklagoon (talk • contribs) 15:26, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- The Zener diode is a type of diode—a type about which enough can be written specific to that type to support a whole article—so it isn't a good analogy to use if you're trying to make the case that clarity meters and transparency meters are different things. Largoplazo (talk) 15:32, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- I am in the process of adding sources. They are not 'minor variants of a technology.' This is like discussing diodes. A Ziener diode is a diode, but it's so different that it deserves a separate page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chucklagoon (talk • contribs) 15:26, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- Do you use clarity meters? Do you use Transparency meters? Do you use haze meters? I don't mean to sound short. I am not trying to be. But, I use these instruments. I know these instruments. If there was a way to cite myself Id do it. Transparency meters in theory and on paper encompass several of the optical testing meters. The problem is that in practice Transparency meters generally test Total Transmittance. Total transmittance tests test for all light passing through a sample. Clarity meters test light passing less than 0.1 degrees. And haze meters test light from 1.4 to 4 degrees i believe (may be slightly off). In the field, confusion is growing because of the interchanging of these words. Yes they are under the hat of transparency. But, in the field it is our responsibility, as those who know better, to do our best to separate the confusing data, and help clarify the meanings of each and their interlacing together. Having them on the same page adds to the chance of confusion. Make a transparency page. But if the page is going to say transparency meter, then there needs to be a separate page for clarity meter and haze meter. Every clarity meter is a special, different type of transparency measurement meter...but a transparency meter ususally isn't a clarity meter. BYK-Gardner has a hazeguard haze meter that combines haze testing and transparency testing. They say it can also do clarity, but per physical properties the unit isnt long enough for that test. (More confusion and lumping-together added) Zebedee Corp. Makes a CL-100 clarity meter that only tests clarity. (This is the only unit ive ever used that actually has true Clarity testing capabilities) I am passionate about this issue. I know of one company that went bankrupt and closed due to bad CLARITY TESTING and their transparency testing was fine. Chucklagoon (talk) 16:13, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- I completely believe you, and appreciate that you feel strongly about this. But on Wikipedia, our personal experience is considered WP:Original research, and can't substitute for reliable sources. Please let me know if I can help you find some references to verify this, or in helping to format the references that you find. Note that this can include printed sources not available online. Thanks, The Mighty Glen (talk) 16:25, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- The non-comparability of subsets and mutually exclusive sets doesn't vanish in the face of clarity meters and transparency meters. My point about your analogy was valid, and, regardless of whether clarity meters and transparency meters are two different things, your analogy with diodes and Zener diodes was invalid. Largoplazo (talk) 16:57, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- Do you use clarity meters? Do you use Transparency meters? Do you use haze meters? I don't mean to sound short. I am not trying to be. But, I use these instruments. I know these instruments. If there was a way to cite myself Id do it. Transparency meters in theory and on paper encompass several of the optical testing meters. The problem is that in practice Transparency meters generally test Total Transmittance. Total transmittance tests test for all light passing through a sample. Clarity meters test light passing less than 0.1 degrees. And haze meters test light from 1.4 to 4 degrees i believe (may be slightly off). In the field, confusion is growing because of the interchanging of these words. Yes they are under the hat of transparency. But, in the field it is our responsibility, as those who know better, to do our best to separate the confusing data, and help clarify the meanings of each and their interlacing together. Having them on the same page adds to the chance of confusion. Make a transparency page. But if the page is going to say transparency meter, then there needs to be a separate page for clarity meter and haze meter. Every clarity meter is a special, different type of transparency measurement meter...but a transparency meter ususally isn't a clarity meter. BYK-Gardner has a hazeguard haze meter that combines haze testing and transparency testing. They say it can also do clarity, but per physical properties the unit isnt long enough for that test. (More confusion and lumping-together added) Zebedee Corp. Makes a CL-100 clarity meter that only tests clarity. (This is the only unit ive ever used that actually has true Clarity testing capabilities) I am passionate about this issue. I know of one company that went bankrupt and closed due to bad CLARITY TESTING and their transparency testing was fine. Chucklagoon (talk) 16:13, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
I certainly would appreciate any assistance possible in finding sources of the separation. Its extremely difficult to discern the difference because all 3 of these instruments are transparency meters...but only one of them is a transparency meter. Haha. And thus lies the problem. Chucklagoon (talk) 16:32, 14 March 2018 (UTC)