Talk:Yerevan

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Former featured article candidate Yerevan is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
August 15, 2012 Featured article candidate Not promoted

Etymology[edit]

It is incorrect to refer to the official language of Iran - Persian - as Farsi when writing in English. "Farsi" (an Arabic adaptation of the word "Parsi"), is the indigenous name of the Persian language. Just as the German speaking people refer to their language as 'Deutsch', the Greek 'Ellinika' and the Spanish 'Espanol', the Persians use 'Farsi' or 'Parsi' to identify their native form of verbal communication. Recognising this, it has been Wikipedia's policy (based on Wiki:Correct; Wiki:Verifiability; Wiki:Naming conventions (languages); Wiki:Official names) to consistently use the term Persian (language) instead of Farsi.

Therefore, I will change the following sentence:

"In the late medieval and early modern periods, when Yerevan was under Turkic and later Persian rule the city was known in Farsi as Iravân (Persian: ایروان‎‎)".

To:

"In the late medieval and early modern periods, when Yerevan was under Turkic and later Persian rule, the city was known in Persian as Iravân (Persian: ایروان‎‎)".


Summary:

The word Persian is substituted for Farsi, and a punctuation of comma is added in order to enhance the quality of the sentence.


Thanks, NuturalObserver (talk) 02:01, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Population of Yerevan[edit]

There seems to be an inconsistency between the different sources cited for the populations of Armenian cities on the English-language Wikipedia and I was wondering whether someone could help be resolve the discrepancy. All of the sources come directly from the National Statistical Service of the Republic of Armenia. The Yerevan Wikipedia article cites what appears to be a 2011 census fact sheet ([1] in Armenian) for the de jure population of Yerevan of 1,060,138. This is consistent with the 2011 population census results ([2] in English and [3] in Armenian), which put the 2011 populations as 1,060,138 for "Yerevan community", 121,976 for "Gyumri city", 86,199 for "Vanadzor city", and 46,540 for "Vagharshapat". I will call this the "smaller population estimate". I have seen some other Wikipedia articles cite another 2011 census fact sheet ([4] (p. 20)), which put the 2011 de jure populations at 1,121,900 for Yerevan, 146,100 for Gyumri, 105,000 for Vanadzor, 57,600 for Vagharshapat, etc. I will call this the "larger population estimate". The Wikipedia articles for the larger cities, however, now appear to cite an Armenian Statistical Service demographic handbook that has a somewhat older version of the "larger population estimate" ([5] in Armenian and English), although the articles sometimes cite a "2011 population" that is not actually found in that document. The "larger population estimate" also seems to have been picked up for use in Arthur Tsutsiev's new book Atlas of the Ethno-Political History of the Caucasus (2014). Tsutsiev cites an Armenian Statistical Service document ([6] in Armenian) for the 2012 populations of Armenian cities: 1,129,300 for Yerevan, 145,700 for Gyumri, 104,800 for Vanadzor, and 57,800 for Vagharshapat. Further complicating matters, I found two similar-looking spreadsheets from the Armenian Statistical Service that report incompatible figures. One ([7] in English) has the "larger population estimate" with 2011 de jure populations of 1,121,933 for Yerevan, 146,122 for Gyumri, 104,998 for Vanadzor, 57,622 for Vagharshapat, etc. Another ([8] in English) has the "smaller population estimate" with 2011 de jure populations of 1,060,138 for Yerevan, 121,976 for Gyumri, 86,199 for Vanadzor, 46,540 for Vagharshapat, etc. Does anyone have any idea of what is going on here? I cannot read Armenian and I do not understand the nuances of Armenian administrative divisions, so it is hard for me to figure this out. My guess is that the "larger" figures are simply estimates and the "smaller" estimates are official results of the 2011 census, but I haven't been able to prove that. Either way, there is an inconsistency between Wikipedia articles because the Yerevan article uses the smaller estimate and the Gyumri, Vanadzor, and Vagharshapat articles (and perhaps others) use the larger estimate. I suspect that several of the Wikipedia articles need to be updated with correctly-sourced population figures. Ketone16 (talk) 16:45, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Also, when I look at the results of the 2001 census a decade earlier ([9]), I find the following de jure populations: 1,103,488 for Yerevan, 150,917 for Gyumri, 107,394 for Vanadzor, 56,388 for Vagharshapat, etc. These figures are closer to the "larger" population figures in 2011. So, I guess my questions are: 1) which set of population figures is correct (official) for 2011, and 2) if the smaller set of figures is correct for 2011, then why are the numbers so much lower than the 2001 numbers? Is it because people left all of the major Armenian cities, or because of some change in census methodology like the use of different administrative boundaries? Ketone16 (talk) 15:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
The Armenian National Statistical Service accounts the population of Armenia in two categories. 1) The "smaller population estimate", which they call de facto population is exactly what they call it. It is the exact number of people present in Armenia at the time on the census. 2) The "larger population estimate" (de jure) also includes people who are temporarily residing abroad. This group particularly includes seasonal migrant workers (mostly in Russia). In Armenia, people are registered by address and their address actually appears on passports. So to sum up, the de jure (i.e. "larger") population includes people who live in Armenia "legally", meaning they're registered in Armenia, but might live in Armenia only for a few months a year. For all purposes, I'm inclined to use the the smaller (de facto) number, although this can be debated. --Երևանցի talk 04:51, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
I think I already accounted for this: all of the numbers I quoted above should be de jure populations, which seem to be referenced more widely in publications than the de facto populations. There is a discrepancy within the set of de jure populations themselves that is visible by comparing some of the files cited above. The question of whether to use de jure (permanently present + temporarily absent) or de facto (permanently present + temporarily present) populations in Wikipedia articles is a good one; I don't know whether Wikipedia editors have settled on some guideline for this. Ketone16 (talk) 13:18, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, my mistake. I completely misunderstood you. You are, most likely, correct that the "larger" figures are from the annual estimates by the agency, while the "smaller" figures (both for 2011) are the official results of the 2011 census. This is nothing new. The same is true for the US. The US Census Bureau makes a number of estimations every year (American Community Survey), including the years when censuses are taken. There is always a huge discrepancy between the estimates and the census results. --Երևանցի talk 01:30, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Makes sense. Would you recommend changing all the populations in the other Wikipedia articles (Gyumri, Vanadzor, Vagharshapat, etc.), to use the "smaller" figures, or do we need further confirmation that these are the best figures to use? Ketone16 (talk) 05:35, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
I personally prefer the smaller number because it is more closer to the reality. And is not the de facto number what other countries' statistical agencies take into account? I don't know we should be bold and go ahead change all the numbers. I wish more people would've joined this discussion. --Երևանցի talk 23:16, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
I wasn't sure which figure is closer to reality. I don't know whether de facto or de jure populations are preferred generally. It seems that the United Nations prefers de jure populations for Armenia. . . ?
A contrary statement is found in the 2013 United Nations Demographic Yearbook (p. 5): "As far as possible, the population statistics presented in the tables of the Demographic Yearbook refer to the de facto population." See also the 2011 de facto population cited for Armenia on p. 59. I don't know why the UN database I mentioned above uses de jure populations for Armenia -- maybe it's easier to use de jure populations when trying to maintain consistency among estimates throughout the between-census years? Ketone16 (talk) 16:17, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

SHENGAVIT settlement _ 3000 BC[edit]

Why don't you mention SHENGAVIT settlement ??? The Shengavit Settlement is an archaeological site in present day Yerevan, Armenia located on a hill south-east of Lake Yerevan. It was inhabited during a series of settlement phases from approximately 3200 BC cal to 2500 BC cal in the Kura Araxes (Shengavitian) Period of the Early Bronze Age and irregularly re-used in the Middle Bronze Age until 2200 BC cal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shengavit_Settlement — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.157.218.33 (talk) 21:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Timeline of Yerevan[edit]

What is missing from the city timeline? Please add relevant content. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 11:37, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Orphaned references in Yerevan[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Yerevan's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "iranica":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT 01:29, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Location of Mt. Ararat[edit]

Although Mount Ararat is mentioned many times in the article there is no referral to its location. One could think it is located in Armenia wrongly. It should be stated in the article clearly. Thanks Abbatai 06:20, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

It is actually mentioned only four times, all in the context of it being visible from Yerevan. I don't see a need to have content here detailing its location - the Mount Ararat article does that. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 23:03, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
"Being visible" has nothing to do with being in Turkey or Armenia. It can be in Armenia and visible from Yerevan as well. It is misleading if we do not include where it is located. Thanks Abbatai 10:39, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
we have a separate article on that subject. Lkahd (talk) 09:02, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
What do you mean?--Abbatai 19:38, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

I too don't think its necessary to mention that Ararat is in Turkey. If people really want to know where it's located, they're free to click on the Wikilink and discover it. Étienne Dolet (talk) 20:55, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Why shouldn't we simply say its location to avoid any confusion that Mt. Ararat is in Armenia and visiting another page? Is the location of the Mt. scareword something in this article?--Abbatai 11:05, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

I don't see any problem mentioning Turkey as the location of Ararat. It shouldn't be controversial. --Երևանցի talk 16:14, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Armenian language[edit]

The Armenian language has two primary dialects - Eastern and Western. Eastern Armenian is spoken primarily in Armenia, Russia, Georgia, and Iran. The other major populations of Armenians around the world are speakers of the Western dialect. These nations include the U.S., France, UK, Germany, Brasil, and Argentina among many others. In the current day and age, the two dialects use different spellings for various words, and many times completely different words for the same topic. Eastern Armenian has been highly permeated by the Russian language while Western Armenian and Krapar (Classic Armenian) have not. Also, the Eastern Armenian alphabet has been modified at various times under Russian and Soviet rule, with various letters being modified or completely removed to "Russify" the language.

I, on various wikipages, have added the Western Armenian spelling to the pages, as it is relevant to proper understanding of the Armenian language. Listing only one dialect (Eastern) as the language Armenian (hy) is dishonest and disingenuous. It provides an incorrect understanding of the language. My edits are providing a greater understanding - is this not what we are all here to do?

The arguments from two wikiusers are that Western Armenian is not the official language of Armenia (neither is Eastern Armenian - Armenian is the official language) or that Eastern is more widely spoken (which is in fact false). Since when do either of these reasons negate the relevance of a language? And, since when do false arguments hold weight? HyeSK (talk) 09:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)HyeSK

Unlike you attempt at adding Western Armenian spelling for Gyumri, I can see a case here for Yerevan, as the capital of Armenia and as a very long-established settlement, having this alternative spelling. But it already did have this alternative! Your editing is not adding a new spelling variant but changing the terminology used to describe that variant: altering "Classical Armenian" to "Western Armenian". Why are you wanting this change? Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 22:46, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

This is why I wish people had more knowledge of the language AND history. Gyumri's dialect is that of Western Armenian. This page actually did NOT have the Western spelling, I added it and Yerevantsi had a heart attack over it, then changed it to "classic spelling". Western Armenian is a more widely spoken dialect which uses this spelling and if we are making an honest Wikipedia, it would be most proper to use "Western Armenian" over "Classical Armenian". Also, you must understand Western Armenian speakers will search for these places with the Western Armenian spelling. HyeSK (talk) 10:13, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I had not realized that this content (on this article) has been argued about since may, or earlier. Regarding your point about the search - this is the English language Wikipedia so it is unlikely that anyone will search using "Երեւան", and anyway "Երեւան" seems to automatically default into a search for "Երևան" since the results for "Երեւան" lists articles that do not have Yerevan as "Երեւան" in their content. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
No problem at all. I rather enjoy your mature approach to the issue - I wish more were like you. So, nonetheless, it is still a valid and relevant spelling. Answer me this, what is it hurting? Are you able to tell me how this takes away from the page, or decreases the validity of the page? I happen to believe it only adds to these points.HyeSK (talk) 22:24, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Religion section[edit]

The Religion section needed some copy editing so I went ahead with it. Some of the writing and style confused me (such as a church being consecrated in 2010 but not finished until 2013). I tried to keep most of the section intact. If someone can improve on what I did please do so. Foreignshore (talk) 21:59, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Revision 753023729 by 92slim[edit]

As far I know, we add all "Etymology" theories we hear on Wikipedia. Turkish Language Association is not a random thing. Please revert your edit. Beshogur (talk) 20:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Okay, so how does that source claim the Yerevan comes from Revan again? Étienne Dolet (talk) 21:11, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
No, it's just the usage in Ottoman Turkish language. AFAIK, Revan has been used for long times under Turks, also Ottoman Empire. I can't understand why some Armenian users keep adding irrelevant Armenian names on Turkish majority cities while it's "forbidden" to add an info about Erivan's Turkish/Ottoman usage in the Etymology section? Yerevan had before a significant Azerbaijani Turkish population according Russian Empire census. So? Beshogur (talk) 22:36, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
Because Yerevan was used long before the arrival of the Turks from Central Asia. Remember, Turks came later. Armenians were in those lands first. Étienne Dolet (talk) 03:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
That's not the point. The point is it's been confirmed that the word doesn't originate from Revan because all sources point out it was called Erebuni (in older languages) before Armenians even existed; so no, there is no basis for any other theories. --92slim (talk) 00:43, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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