Talk:Zufar ibn al-Harith al-Kilabi

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Zufar ibn al-Harith al-Kilabi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: AhmadLX (talk · contribs) 23:22, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Happy to review this one.AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 23:22, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Misc.

• "...a favored wife of the Islamic prophet Muhammad": "favored" would require citation and IMO is irrelevant to this article.

• Agreed, removed “favored”. Al Ameer (talk) 02:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• "Ali defeated A'isha, who retired to Mecca." Wasn't it Medina?

• Yes, corrected. Al Ameer (talk) 06:20, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

• "In these narratives all the participating elders of the Banu Amir were slain..." I think it should do without "In these narratives".

• Removed. Al Ameer (talk) 02:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• "...who retired to Mecca. Zufar moved to the Jazira (Upper Mesopotamia)." Do any sources mention if he was arrested, if he pledged allegiance to Ali, or what did Ali do to him etc?

• I have not found anything about Zufar's days in Iraq except from Crone and the Tabari volumes and they contain no such details. It is possible (my speculation) that the Kitab al-aghani, the Hamasa of Abu Tammam or other poetry collections contain fragments but I have had no luck accessing them or at least English versions.

• "Ali died in 661 and Mu'awiya became caliph": this seems like natural death. It should be changed to something like "After the murder of Ali by a Kharijite, Mu'awiya became caliph"

• Revised. Al Ameer (talk) 02:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• "Zufar is said to have met with Ibn al-Zubayr in the Hejaz at that time." Is this to emphasize that it was the first encounter of future allies or is it to convey that despite being in the attacking force, Zufar went over to meet Ibn al-Zubayr for some reason?

• I will look into this tomorrow. Al Ameer (talk) 02:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• I could not find anything about this. We know Husayn ibn Numayr, another commander of the Syrian expeditionary force, conferred with Ibn al-Zubayr after the death of Yazid. Upon inspection, Crone does not appear to say this of Zufar, however; it seems he is said to have visited him under Yazid in the sense of a messenger, before the Hejaz expedition. I may remove it until there is further clarity. Apparently the details about this visit could be found in Baladhuri's Ansab Vol 4, B, p. 20. Do you have access by any chance? Al Ameer (talk) 06:20, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't have Baladhuri. I don't even know if any English translations exist. I've got web-archive link to the Arabic edition. Although finding stuff in there is a real pain in the ***X'D.

Forget it then (for now). I removed it. As it does not appear to link to Zufar's later allegiance to Ibn al-Zubayr it is not necessary to include, unless you think otherwise. Al Ameer (talk) 06:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

No I think it is unnecessary.

• The article doesn't detail Zufar's activities following his submission to Abd al-Malik.

• Frustrating, but I found absolutely nothing about Zufar after the reconciliation. Not even when he died, though I presume he was quite old by then and died not long after. Al Ameer (talk) 02:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Okay. In that case I would suggest adding some OR;) Like adding a short sentence in the article that info on his activities beyond reconciliation with the caliph is scant/doesn't exist in the RS. It can later be removed if some info is found at some later time. This is justified in view of WP:IAR, for it will assure the reader that they are being supplied all the information that exists and the article is not lacking in detail.

Done. Al Ameer (talk) 06:20, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

As always, thanks for taking the time to review. Looking forward to the rest. Al Ameer (talk) 02:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Sources & verifiability

• Given that Dixon is heavily used, and there also is another thesis in the source list, I think Dixon's book should be cited.
• "Studia Arabistyczne i Islamistyczne": Bibliographic details and use in sfn like the others please.

• Done (after much prying...) Al Ameer (talk) 06:28, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• Language parameter needed in Işıltan, Fikret (1960).

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 06:28, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

• I suggest removing Juynboll 1989, as the article significantly relies on primary sources. In this case, Crone does the job. So we better get rid of one primary.

• Done. Al Ameer (talk) 06:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

• The good old Kennedy problem is back it seems (I'm missing some good emojis here ). Cited is the 2004 edition but page numbers are from 2016 one.

• Done. You must know by now this is only to annoy you ;) Al Ameer (talk) 06:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Haha, no I find it rather amusing :D

• Both instances of "Işıltan 1960" should be replaced with Wellhausen 1927, p. 170. Although an older source, Wellhausen is no doubt more authoritative and is in English.

• Agreed (forgot it was in Wellhausen), done. Al Ameer (talk) 06:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

• "Umayr had commanded a brigade in Ibn Ziyad's army but defected mid-battle in revenge for the Qaysi losses at Marj Rahit." Unreferenced.

• Revised this with sources. Al Ameer (talk) 06:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

• "Zufar's family, the Banu Zufar, was granted by the Umayyad caliphs a village or estate in Jund Qinnasrin near the fortress at al-Na'ura, a place downstream of Balis on the Euphrates." This is not on Crone 1980, p. 108. Also p. 109 does not really say that much.

• Removed Crone. Al Ameer (talk) 06:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

• "...and was killed with many members of the family." is also not in Crone 1980, p.109.

• Fixed with different source. Al Ameer (talk) 06:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Pass. Great work once again. Hopefully, you will deal with Mr. Dixon ;). AhmadLX-(Wikiposta) 17:09, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks AhmadLX for another thorough review. Will not forget Dixon. Al Ameer (talk) 19:51, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Sourcing for third son

@Iylaq: Hello! I saw that you added a third son of Zufar (Waki) to the infobox with general references to Ibn Asakir's Tarikh and Ibn Hazm's Jamharat. Could you please add the full reference? If it's not the original Arabic manuscript, we need the full title of the edited version, name of the editor, the publisher, year, location, a url if available, page numbers. Thank you. --Al Ameer (talk) 15:46, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for reminding. sorry for late reply. ok i will add it Iylaq (talk) 05:48, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Romanisation scheme

There seem to be so many romanisation schemes for arabic. However the name of the sche used is not being specified. Which romanisation system is being flowed in wiki ? Its difficult for non arabic speakers to know da pronunciation without knowing da scheme. Inquisitive creature (talk) 17:07, 25 August 2022 (UTC)