Template:Did you know nominations/Halfway to Sanity
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:42, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
| DYK toolbox |
|---|
Halfway to Sanity
[edit]- ... that according to Ramones lore, shortly after finishing the 1987 album Halfway to Sanity, drummer Richie Ramone quit the band to caddy because the pay was better? Source: "Unhappy with years working for a small salary as the Ramones' drummer, Richie quit to take a higher-paying job as a golf caddy" (The Official Punk Rock Book of Lists, p. 29)
- ALT1:... that The Ramones recorded instrumental tracks for their 1987 album Halfway to Sanity before the vocals since it was easier to learn the songs that way? Source: "The band laid down their basic tracks in the afternoon, and Joey recorded his voice in the evening. It was quicker to learn songs without any vocal, so they did ..." (Hey Ho Let's Go: The Story of The Ramones, pp. 274–75)
- ALT2 ... that Richie Ramone recorded the drums for the 1987 Ramones' album Halfway to Sanity but was replaced on tour by Marky Ramone after Ritchie quit the band?
- ALT3 ... that Marky Ramone rejoined The Ramones during the tour to support their 1987 album Halfway to Sanity after drummer Richie Ramone quit the band?
- Reviewed: Liam Millar
Improved to Good Article status by CrowzRSA (talk). Nominated by Daniel Case (talk) at 05:04, 4 April 2018 (UTC).
Congrats on the GA! I think ALT1 is definitely the more interesting hook and it is sourced, but the entry gives a few slightly different iterations of Richie's reasons for leaving the band, including in the lead ("drummer Richie Ramone left the band because he did not feel he was getting paid enough"
), and I think we wouldn't want readers clicking on a DYK and arriving at text that seems a bit contradictory. I'm adding a couple more hook options but would welcome more ideas. Otherwise looks good to me: QPQ done, I cleared up the one minor Earwig Copyvio flag, entry's neutral, well-sourced and long enough (obviously, as a GA), promoted within the time frame. Innisfree987 (talk) 21:21, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
@Innisfree987: I didn't get it to GA; I just promoted it and afterwards realized it would be a good one to nominate.
ALTs 2 and 3 aren't really that interesting; bands have personnel moves like that all the time. I suppose we could change the wording of the lead hook to include "according to one account" or something like that. And/or put that fact in the intro. Daniel Case (talk) 21:36, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes my congratulations were meant for CrowzRSA--should have pinged him in the first place. Well done! Meanwhile, I wonder whether he might have more hook suggestions. I can't say I'd feel comfortable signing off on a hook that's up for debate factually speaking (it's a fact that that was reported as one reason he may have quit, but as other reasons were also reported, and we don't have space to cover them here, my recommendation is to go with something more straightforward). But if you really want that hook, please feel free to request another review; I won't feel offended as I'm just one editor, consensus above all, etc. Cheers! Innisfree987 (talk) 22:01, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
@Innisfree987: You know, I've done some more research and maybe the caddy bit is dubious, not so dubious as to take out of the article yet but maybe not use as a Main Page DYK hook involving a BLP. It's apparently in Jim Bessman's authorized bio of the band, but it's not available for preview on Google Books so I can't verify that it appears there. This archived Usenet thread from 2001 suggests that the story was fed to Bessman as a prank—not a reliable source, but something to keep in mind as a possible explanation for the fact that this doesn't seem to have been repeated many other places besides Bessman's book and the The Official Punk Rock Book of Lists (and since when do "punk rock" and "official" belong in the same sentence?). Richie hasn't said one thing or another about whether it's true, but ... the Washington Times asked him point blank in 2015 why he left when he did, and he said: "I just felt it was time to go. [I] wasn't getting what I wanted to get. That was it. Move on. I was a kid then." Which sounds vague enough to cover not only the idea of leaving to go caddy, but almost anything else for that matter (it does, nonetheless, suggest that his low pay was indeed part of that decision).
So I'm thinking we should go for another hook.:
- ALT4: ... that on the Ramones' 1987 Halfway to Sanity tour, Blondie's Clem Burke took over for Richie Ramone, only to be replaced by Marky Ramone after two shows because he couldn't play the material?
- ALT4a: ... that Blondie's Clem Burke lasted only two shows drumming for The Ramones on their 1987 Halfway to Sanity tour because he couldn't play the material?
- And as much as I dislike hooks built around quotes about the subject, I'd make an exception for this one (If we like it, I will put the cite in the intro):
- ALT5: ... that Stephen Thomas Erlewine said The Ramones' 1987 album Halfway to Sanity was the last time they "still sounded like they mattered"?
- Daniel Case (talk) 03:51, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Daniel Case: If you choose to link to Blondie, please be sure the target is Blondie (band). GoingBatty (talk) 16:42, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- @GoingBatty:
Done Daniel Case (talk) 05:38, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- @GoingBatty:
- @Daniel Case: If you choose to link to Blondie, please be sure the target is Blondie (band). GoingBatty (talk) 16:42, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Daniel Case (talk) 03:51, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Oh yes, I have to say I like that bit about golf caddying so even if not for DYK, would favor keeping it in the entry even if it has to be framed as Ramones lore.
- I do find the bit about changing drummers interesting, personally, but I feel like for DYK we gotta be extra mindful of BLP restrictions and so might need to qualify the bit about playing poorly (in whose view?) I couldn't quite come up with a better way to phrase so instead I have a few more hooks to propose. I mean, in the end we def have some options here already that satisfy policy; I just wanted to throw out a few more options in case any seem more interesting. But we definitely have options.
ALT6: ... that on the Ramones' 1987 Halfway to Sanity tour, the band was banned from playing at Boston College and attended [played?]a student anti-censorship protest instead?- ALT6a... that on the Ramones' 1987 Halfway to Sanity tour, the band was banned from playing at Boston College on the grounds that they promoted "rowdiness, destructiveness, and drug use"?
- Innisfree987 (talk) 17:39, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- ALT5: ... that Stephen Thomas Erlewine said The Ramones' 1987 album Halfway to Sanity was the last time they "still sounded like they mattered"?
- Yes my congratulations were meant for CrowzRSA--should have pinged him in the first place. Well done! Meanwhile, I wonder whether he might have more hook suggestions. I can't say I'd feel comfortable signing off on a hook that's up for debate factually speaking (it's a fact that that was reported as one reason he may have quit, but as other reasons were also reported, and we don't have space to cover them here, my recommendation is to go with something more straightforward). But if you really want that hook, please feel free to request another review; I won't feel offended as I'm just one editor, consensus above all, etc. Cheers! Innisfree987 (talk) 22:01, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I also reworded the lead hook to add that it was lore. Daniel Case (talk) 19:12, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Awesome. Thanks for all your work. I've ticked off one of the Boston College ones for the sake of picking one, but I've think we've got quite a few here that are totally viable options and if the eventual promoter has a different preference, I'm fine with going another way! Innisfree987 (talk) 20:00, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- And just one more option if we want one that has more to do with the album itself:
- ALT7: ... that The Ramones liked that the cover image for their 1987 album Halfway to Sanity was dimly lit since it made them look younger? Daniel Case (talk) 03:36, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ha that’s a great one! The brainstorming pays off! Innisfree987 (talk) 03:47, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- ALT7: ... that The Ramones liked that the cover image for their 1987 album Halfway to Sanity was dimly lit since it made them look younger? Daniel Case (talk) 03:36, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- And just one more option if we want one that has more to do with the album itself:
- Awesome. Thanks for all your work. I've ticked off one of the Boston College ones for the sake of picking one, but I've think we've got quite a few here that are totally viable options and if the eventual promoter has a different preference, I'm fine with going another way! Innisfree987 (talk) 20:00, 15 April 2018 (UTC)